by serendipity 40 Replies latest social relationships
I'm trying to understand the 'guilty' feeling.
I know that a JW wife has to 'appear' submissive for her husband to be considered for privileges. A man might be upset or angry with his wife for not supporting his ambitions, or he may feel inadequate or frustrated because he can't control her or influence her to be submissive. He may feel guilty for wanting her to be submissive to enable him to look good to the congregation. What else is there?
A couple of women in "the world" have told me I'm not assertive enough. It seems that girls want a man who can take the lead. Therefore I find some of the remarks on this thread a bit confusing. I wonder if there is some kind of rebound effect whereby the sisters simply didn't like being told to be submissive but deep down they like a confident, good decision maker and leader. I don't know. To be honest I would say I have a balanced approach to household decisions but will never let a woman touch my finances.
Seren, the guilt is embarrassment disguised as guilt. They don't want their macho friends thinking they can't control their women. It's really very simple. I used to hear it all the time, "Brother so and so can't control his wife." I thought, "What the hell? Isn't she supposed to control herself?"
A couple of women in "the world" have told me I'm not assertive enough. It seems that girls want a man who can take the lead. Therefore I find some of the remarks on this thread a bit confusing. I wonder if there is some kind of rebound effect whereby the sisters simply didn't like being told to be submissive but deep down they like a confident, good decision maker and leader. I don't know. To be honest I would say I have a balanced approach to household decisions but will never let a woman touch my finances.
Ballistic, just because a man has backbone, doesn't mean his woman has to be submissive. Women want men who have backbone and that aren't indecisive. That means that SOME of the time, we'd like you to make decisions. That does not mean we want to be pushed around or dominated. Is that so hard to understand. We don't want you to be a wimp. We also don't want you to dominate us. There is a happy medium. We also want you to have confidence in yourself.
Guilt is generally a feeling that one has when one feels that they've done something wrong.
When guilt or shame is imposed on someone by an authority figure, there's usually a lot of conflict going on in the person's mind. In the case of a JW husband who can't get his wife to be Submissive™ to his Headship™, he probably feels resentful of her for hindering his advancement in the congregation. And then he feels guilty for resenting someone he loves. And then he feels guilty for not measuring up. And then he feels inadequate for being incapable of controlling his wife.
It's the imposition of guilt and shame by people regardes as authority figures that usually compels someone caught up in the cult mindset to "do more" and "try harder". After all, they are trying to achieve God's Approval™. It's a very manipulative tactic to generate meeting attendance, field service hours and personal purity... a very delicate balancing act that never seems to be perfect.
Hi ballsy,
I agree comments are confusing. I shake my head at some things I hear women say. They want a man who plans a date, then complain when things don't turn out so great. They don't want a man ordering them around, then they call him to ask permission for something trivial.
There needs to be a careful balance in a man. He needs to be confident and able to make decisions, but also be able to defer decisions to his significant other. Communication is key - and a couple should discuss who makes what decisions when.
but will never let a woman touch my finances.
Would you let a man touch your finances? That's rhetorical, but watch out for a double standard. Many women I know handle the 'spending' and 'saving' part of the financial equation better than men, because the men want all the gadgets that need to be upgraded every 2 or 3 years. Women have a ways to go to learn investing, but there are those of us out here who do well in that area.
Ok - I hijacked my own thread. Back to the topic.
I'm trying to understand the 'guilty' feeling.I know that a JW wife has to 'appear' submissive for her husband to be considered for privileges. A man might be upset or angry with his wife for not supporting his ambitions, or he may feel inadequate or frustrated because he can't control her or influence her to be submissive. He may feel guilty for wanting her to be submissive to enable him to look good to the congregation. What else is there?
seren,
There is no understanding illogic. I dont know that guilt has anything to do with it. It is about appearances. The JW illogic is "the spiritual state of the family is a reflection of the father/husband." As you say above it is all about feelings; upset, angry, feel inadequate, frustrated, guilty. Irrational thought is controlled by feelings that are a product of mind control by the cult. So really there is nothing else, its just irrational, aberrant, destructive behavior based on any range of emotions you described above.
Matt
And ballsy, I wouldn't let a man touch my finances. It's a trust thing with me.
Greetings, ballistic,
A couple of women in "the world" have told me I'm not assertive enough. It seems that girls want a man who can take the lead. Therefore I find some of the remarks on this thread a bit confusing.
Women don't like having to fight a man's battles for him; that's about it, as far as I can see.
Down-n-dirty shortcut to enlightenment: Heartless Bitches
I wonder if there is some kind of rebound effect whereby the sisters simply didn't like being told to be submissive but deep down they like a confident, good decision maker and leader.
Definitely a "confident, good decision maker," but probably not a "leader".
Definitely not a "whatever you say, dear" type, and DEFINITELY not someone who tries to guilt-trip a woman into submission by being a DOORMAT. Be "nice" for its own sake, not to earn nookie brownie points.
gently feral who may or may not be a Heartless Bitch; it depends on who you ask.
That means that SOME of the time, we'd like you to make decisions.
I think when I was married in "da truth", I probably ignored the headship thing. A lot of the time I did make decisions because my wife was 18 and inexperienced. But I would always listen to what she wanted.
