sounds like JAC
Just Another Cult
Meet the shock troops of the Christian right?
by Makena1 16 Replies latest jw friends
-
-
XJW4EVR
Because, as a general rule, it is the Judeo-Christian ethic that has bettered the conditions of man.
hahahahhahahahahahahhahahaaaahahhahahahahaaaaaa ;;
Oh that was funny stuff! ;
;
As to the article they are crazy... ; Just as crazy as the fool writing that tripe...
Well, mkr, if you can show me that the opposite is true, then I will change my view. Please note, I am not looking for notable exceptions, but a general rule.
-
fullofdoubtnow
Just Another Cult
That's what I was thinking, and a potentially dangerous one at that.
-
MuadDib
"Because, as a general rule, it is the Judeo-Christian ethic that has bettered the conditions of man."
Ah, yes. This would be the same Judeo-Christian ethic that taught for centuries that blacks did not have souls and so it was therefore alright to institute a global slave trade that produced the deaths of twenty million completely innocent people, not to mention the thorny problems related to the issue that we still confront today. This would be the same Judeo-Christian ethic that informed the creation of world-spanning empires based on hierarchies of race and ethnicity, resulting in the indescribable destruction of countless native cultures and the production of entire classes of people who live virtually as aliens in their own societies. This would be same Judeo-Christian ethic that unleashed the unspeakably barbaric Crusades against the Muslims, Jews, and yes, Christians of the Middle East. This is the Judeo-Christian ethic associated for two millennia with oppression, tyranny, behaviour and thought control, inequality, injustice, and virtually every single misstep made by humanity in the time period.
Conversely, every single advancement in human rights that has taken place throughout history has come about due to the efforts of people who did NOT follow the Judeo-Christian ethic - and were in many cases persecuted by that ethic's elites for their trouble. It wasn't the vested interests of the Judeo-Christian ethic that produced the American and French revolutions. It wasn't the Judeo-Christian ethic that yielded female suffrage or improved labour conditions. It wasn't the Judeo-Christian ethic that provided for the compulsory education of children. Rather, it was the Judeo-Christian ethic that stood staunchly in the way of all of these things, which have actually served to better the conditions of man, and we are much, much the better that the Judeo-Christian ethic did NOT prevail when people like yourself would have claimed it was being "attacked" or "threatened" by these GOOD THINGS.
The general rule is that human societies are intrisincally given to the persecution of dissent when it appears to threaten certain vested interests. It doesn't matter whether a society is spiritual or secular (and a lot of grey exists between the two), and secular societies have produced human catastrophes of extremely destructive degrees as well. But the fact is that the Western world became a beacon of progress after it ditched its idiotic commitment to religious fundamentalism and adopted secularism as its guiding philosophy, not before. When religion occupies its proper place in society, below the crucial safeguarding of people's basic rights before the secular and impartial law, society succeeds. Imbuing a religious ethic into society has never yielded anything but stagnation, oppression, and eventually collapse. History tells us this story over, and over, and over.
The one relevant point I got out of that article (I highly doubt these Army of God lunatics wield any real power to change the way things are) is that my generation is going to have to clean up the most monumental mess in history, thanks to the preceding generation and its bumbling greed, arrogant incompetence, and downright lack of ability to hold its shit together. And here they are again poisoning more young people with their lunacy, cutting us down and making it even harder for us to make a start of creating peaceful, productive, cooperative societies on the ruins of the steadily declining global situation. No guidance, just empty promises and hollow ideology while the world goes down the crapper.
-
Caedes
Oh yes, the horror of not lying, stealing or murdering. What a terrible thing to force those prohibitions on people.
Yesssss, as a secular humanist there is nothing I like better than going out on a weekend and doing a bit of lying, stealing and cold blooded murder.
What an idiot!
By the way we have a secular humanist government in the UK if you wanted an example, and I think our human rights record is (whilst not perfect) is a lot better than America's is currently.
-
Abaddon
XJW
Because, as a general rule, it is the Judeo-Christian ethic that has bettered the conditions of man.
So the JC world gets to rule with their own rules forever due to historical happen-chance? And all other people, of other religions and of secular viewpoints get to be grateful?
Not something I can agree with; and that's without taking issue on the claim "as a general rule, it is the Judeo-Christian ethic that has bettered the conditions of man". The improvements in standards of living, equality, human rights, life-spans, education etc. have largely been tracable from the start of the period society began to be secularised.
There's more evidence the betterment of the conditions of man have been due to secularism than a JC ethic. The JC ethic had failed to bring equality, education, justice, health - despite trying for almost 2,000 years. Secularism started the real beneficial changes.
Why not base society on the principles of humans rights?
Who is the arbiter of those rights, Abbadon?
That's a strange question; you know the answer. Governments elected by people agree on the principles of human rights and have codified these on several occasions. You are as included in that process as your hypothetical atheist left wing next-door neighbour. Legal systems interpret and enfore those rights. If the people feel rights change (for example, allowing black people to vote), then in time they change.
If I understood this leftists article, then I would have no rights since I am unenlightened Christian.
I'm talking about human rights; you have as many of those as the next human. Why the sympathy card? There's no need for it; as a right-wing American male you belong to one of the largest and most influential groups on this planet.... not really any reason for you to sound so woe-begone. It amazes me how the white American Republican male can sound so sorry for itself when it has all the toys in the basket, on average.
You do not however have the right to force your religious beliefs on others so by using them as a basis to build society on.
You can be free and happy to worship as you want in a safe secular society. A humanist cannot have the same freedoms in a society based on a belief structure.
Most of the left believe that human rights come from humans, therefore when they find that a right is inconvinient to them or a hinderance to their power hunger those rights get suspended.
Please show me where this has happened in a modern democracy. In absense of such proof you are fear-mongering. Then for context, show me a JC ethic country that does not or has not violated human rights.
The American democratic-republic, says that human rights are endowed be the Creator, and hence not subject to the whims of human government or opinion.
Interesting point. Where in the document you have just cited (Declaration of Independence) does it say anything about a JC ethic being the basis of society? It might say that men are created equal in the sight of god, or words to that effect, but any doubt over the intent of this statement is cleared up by the 1st Ammendment, which clearly seperates government from religion.
Are you suggesting a humanist secular society (where people can believe what they like provided they do no harm to others) cannot work as well as a JC ethic society?
No, I am suggesting the opposite. That a secular humanistic society cannot function with people that posess a Judeo-Christian ethic. They are polar opposites.
So the intolerence of certain religious individuals undermines a stable society? Because if some religious people believe god says x, and x violates human rights, it doesn't matter, as god said it? And this willingness to violate human rights due to religious beliefs is poison in a society based on human rights intrinsic to being a sentient human being that ride over and above any religious belief structure, being principles of fact rather than belief? Of course, you dont mean that, LOL. I do.
Me and people like me are quite happy to live with people like you provided you don't harm anyone or infrige their rights. You apparently are not happy to live with us. You are free to dissent. But you apparently want to impose your beliefs on others; that's not dissent, that's oppression.
What of the people (law-abiding good citizens) excluded by basing government on a JC ethic?
Oh yes, the horror of not lying, stealing or murdering. What a terrible thing to force those prohibitions on people.
Would you be so kind as to answer the question?
Why not achieve the same fairness and tolerance a modern JC ethic society can attain in a secular way that includes all people of good will?
If you could point out a secular humanistic society that has truly respected the rights of disenters, then I would have to reconsider my position. Until then, I'll stick to my guns.Errr... well, we can discount the USA, as it isn't secular in the sense of the European countries. I happen to live in probably one of THE prime examples of a secular, as humanist as any other country and more than many, society. Now, you have not proved any point here; you haven't proved that secular humanist societies do not respect the rights of dissenters. You making an unsupported assumption; ya know, like WoMD's? You are asking me to disprove something you have not proved - a logical impossibility if that's of any interest.
But have a go; show how the Netherlands (famous for centuries as a place people run TOO to flee religious or other persecution) has NOT respected the rights of dissenters. And then show a JC ethic society that does better.
-
ObservingTexan
Just another left wing kook with a blog. She's as extreme as the group she abhors. Considering the source, I stopped reading when she thought Bush bashing was an essential part of the topic at hand.