So why all the guilt over sex??? (page 2)

AudeSapere

Looking Glass wrote: And as for wanting info, the JC always says it is to determine what type of sin has been committed, but truthfully it is so the old men can get it up without having to take their Viagra for the evening. It is their own form of erotica. - Italics added.

I had never even thought that elders were anything other than honestly concerned about the spiritual welfare of their flock. - UNTIL I started posting here and heard so many cynics. I honestly thought that people were exagerating or reading more into whatever was discussed.

THEN I got to have a real conversation with a few former elders. They got to talking and one admitted to really getting into the JCs with women confessing about sexual matters. It was disturbing to me.

Guess those cynical posters weren't / aren't so cynical afterall.

-Aude.

looking_glass

Aude, Aude, Aude - the stories that were told when I was a teenager would have your head spinning. There was a boy in particular that always made sure he had the same three dudes sitting on his JC when dealing with sexual misconduct. Why, because he had them pegged. He would go into graphic detail about the sex act and then cry at the end. This kid NEVER got in trouble. It drove everyone nuts because his mother was the biggest self-righteous JW we knew. We just kept waiting for her precious baby boy to get dinged so she would be taken down a peg and it never happened. He use to laugh about it.

A girl I know refused to go into detail about the sex act, but she was really sorry that she had sex outside of marriage. She was devastated by the whole thing. She admitted to the JC that she had sex with someone who was not a JW. When she refused to go into detail, they told her they were DF'ing her because she would not go along with Jah's arrangement and was unrepentant. I guess I never realized that Jah's arrangement was for a bunch of old men to get off on the details of a girl's first time. It was just so disturbing.

AudeSapere

It's actually nauseating to think about. I can't imagine a young girl going thru that. I was an elders daughter but mostly good. Well-behaved and a real good sneak. I was not privy to the details of JCs partly because kids thought I would share with my dad and partly because I believed that it was confidential and that the elders would maintain the dignity and confidence of those meetings.

Boy was I hoodwinked.

I had no clue. In my early/mid thirties a good friend was telling me about some JCs that her teenage girls were summoned to. It just didn't sound right to me and I thought she was exagerating. Those meetings really messed up those girls for a while. They told me that a few of the elders' daughters were even more involved then they were, but I really didn't believe them - too much. What a blind fool I was.

I'm really sickened by the senseless psychological and spiritual abuse heaped on those who have been so badly treated by bullying elders. And grateful for those elders who would not stoop to that base collusion. I know that there are/were many sincere elders who genuinely sought to shephard the flock in their care with love and respect and allowed individuals to maintain their dignity.

I'm appalled that there are so many stories of JC psychological abuse.

So happy to be out and thankful for not getting caught.

-Aude.

stillAwitness

That stories I am reading about the JC is just gross!! What a bunch of douchebags

jwfacts

A friend of mine went to the elders when she was about 18 offer an earlier pedophile issue with her uncle and nothing was done.
About a year later she had to appear before the elders in regards to fornication with a 'worldly' guy. They asked so many intricate details that she ended up walking out, and refusing to meet with them again, so they d/f her.
She said she was sicked by these dirty old men obviously getting off on making a cute 19yo girl describe exactly where she was touched and how long, and if there was penetration, and how it felt, justifying it as necessary to determine if there was a sin and repentance.

dinah

For one thing, the only time sex is mentioned from the podium, it is in a negative way. Even sex within marriage is called a "due". That's right, folks, it is a chore and we shouldnt enjoy it at all. Yeah RIGHT! If that were true, it'd be no different from brushing your teeth.

Even sex between people who are married is policed.

As for the gory details in JC's, YES it happens. From talking to different df'd people, they ask much more detailed information from young, attractive girls. Maybe us young girls were forbidden fruit to the elders. Uuugghh, that thought made me shudder. I'll bet now that I'm pushing 40, they would be less interested in details.

delilah

I remember sitting in a committee meeting, when I was 20, and having to go into detail to 3 very old men, about my sexual adventure....one was so deaf, i had to yell it out to him, and it echoed in the hall....I was so embarrassed...afterwards, when i went home and thought about it, I lmao....I'm sure they all got some sort of satisfaction out it.

I also hate how sex is referred to in the bible as a "duty"....it's no duty for me....I love it, and I ain't ashamed to say it!!! Doing laundry is a duty, or chore....

Brigid

Firstly, organised religion is about social engineering. Thus, the topics covered tend to pertain to things like sex (reproduction) and marriage (the family unit).

This is quite possibly the most perfect explanation I have ever come across. When Christianity came on the seen, it immediately went to work on human sexuality (namely how to suppress or at least hyper-control it). I've always thought it was to contrast with the "Pagan" nations who in a more natural, earthy state of "religion" venerated the sex act as the "magick" through which humanity is continued. Not just humanity but all life. Christianity probably started out as more esoteric (i.e., the Coptic/Gnostic peeps) and sex was not so much nasty as superfluous to the ascended spirituality it was selling. Then it quickly deteriorated into all sex is nasty therefore all women are nasty (see Muslim treatment of the female--the females are penalized/veiled for the male's want of her and his perception that she is responsible for his distraction from his male god, who should be everything to him but cannot because sex is a primal need).

Also of note, I believe the fact that Christianity coming from a very male POV with no expression for the feminine divine (i.e., you have a celibate male god who has only had quasi sex once with a female human virgin to produce himself <or his son> incarnate) leaves the subconscious thought that want of the female has no place in the male's spirituality not to mention that it totally disenfranchises the female altogether.

~Brigid

nikan8ter

Guilt is absolutely a form of control. And its piled on from birth if your a JWb. For those who are shocked and wonder how the elders get away with asking so many personal questions . . . . . . . . . . . . .

"you must ask pertient, discreet questions to isolate main issues and determine how or why a problem developed.

Probing questions should not go into needless details, especially in regard to sexual misconduct, unless this is absolutely necessary, such as in dtermining whether pornia had been comiited".

(From the notorious secret elder handbook: Pay attention to yourselves and the flock Page 112)

I guess an elder could hide behind this in order to elicit details to make sure there was not any pornia . . . . . . but hey those JC's are supposed to be confidential too and thats not what happens.

I-follow-the-narrow-path

Some people are may be inexperianced, scared, past experiance, sexual abuse victims.... this world upsets me so:(

So why all the guilt over sex???

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