Watchtower assaults it’s youth – fear/guilt/baptism and career July 1, 2006

by truthseeker 27 Replies latest jw friends

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  blondie

  Note, Juni, that the WTS says it would take only 3 sessions with 3 separate elders...I guess I was being generous saying it would take 6 weeks.

  *** w96 1/15 p. 17 par. 9 Jehovah’s Sheep Need Tender Care ***

  He should make his desire for baptism known to the congregation’s presiding overseer, who will arrange for elders to review with the publisher the questions on pages 175 to 218 of Organized to Accomplish Our Ministry. The four parts into which the questions are divided may be covered in three sessions by three different elders if possible.

  Blondie
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  Joe Grundy

  As a concerned outsider, the issue of JWs baptising children is one that worries me. Not because of its religious significance - if there is a god I think he'd accept a person baptised as a child saying 'Sorry, I was too young to know what I was doing, let me go away and think about it some more now I'm old enough'. But because as far as I can see, JWs baptism is (implicitly before 1985, explicitly since) a commitment to the WT organisation which the member can only exit through formal processes which can involve shunning and other problems.

  As far as the 'age of responsibility' is concerned, some examples from UK law might illustrate how this should be regarded:

  • Under 10 - a child cannot in law commit a criminal offence because he is not considered of being capable of forming 'criminal intent'
  • 10 to 14 - a child may be convicted of a criminal offence if it is proved to a court that he as an individual was capable of froming 'criminal intent'
  • 14 - may be in a bar with licensee's consent, but may not buy or consume alcohol
  • 16 - may give consent to sex, marry (with parental consent), leave home (with parental consent), buy and consume wine, beer and cider with a meal, leave school, drive a motorcycle under 50 cc, play the national lottery
  • 17 - drive a car, leave home without parental consent
  • 18 - vote, marry without consent, buy and consume alcohol in bars, etc., now an 'adult' (although still some restrictions on vehicles to be driven).

  In view of these, what should be regarded as the 'age of responsibility' for such a major life decision as being baptised into JWs? It depends on the individual, of course, but IMHO 14 would be a fair minimum.

  I can understand of course why WTBTS is so keen to baptise children before they are old enough to think for themselves. Like any other major international corporation it is figures and results driven.
• 

  sass_my_frass

  I couldn't finish it, it's too depressing.
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  MidwichCuckoo

  ''But infant baptism and forced baptisms of adults have no foundation in the Bible'' So - I'm reading that a forced Baptism of a minor is a double transgression. ......and my quote button is still not working - lol
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  kristyann

  Does the WTS teach that if you don't get baptized, you'll die at Armageddon?

  If so, I am wondering why my "ex-boyfriend's" parents never encouraged any of the kids to get baptized? They have 4 kids, none of whom are baptized... and the father isn't even baptized, only the mother! I'm certainly GLAD she doesn't encourage them to get baptized... but it's still just a curious, strange thing. If she believes this stuff and is concerned about them and doesn't want them to die, I wonder why she doesn't try to convince her husband and kids to get baptized? She has NEVER mentioned it.
• 

  Tea4Two

  A quote for this thread:

  If the Watchtower organization thinks that higher education is expensive, as someone said "try ignorance." ...Author unknown
• 

  truthseeker

  KristyAnn, some quotes for you...

  *** Watchtower April 1, 2002: p13, paragraph 17, 19 ***

  [Paragraph 17]
  …Jehovah's Witnesses never coerce anyone into baptism.

  [parapgraph 19, subheading]
  Is Something Holding You Back?

  *** Watchtower 1989 January 15 p.15 How Baptism Can Save Us ***

  How Baptism Can Save Us

  "Immersion . . . saves us."-1 PETER 3:21, The Emphatic Diaglott.

  JEHOVAH has specific requirements for those seeking salvation. They must acquire accurate knowledge, exercise faith, repent of their sins, be converted, make a dedication to God, and undergo baptism as believers. (John 3:16; 17:3; Acts 3:19; 18:8) Baptismal candidates must acknowledge publicly that on the basis of Jesus' sacrifice they have repented of their sins and have dedicated themselves to Jehovah. They must also understand that dedication and baptism identify them as Jehovah's Witnesses.

  2 The entire baptismal arrangement, including this public expression of faith, is essential for salvation. (Romans 10:10) This was confirmed when the apostle Peter wrote: "Immersion . . . saves us." (1 Peter 3:21, ED) But exactly how should we understand these words? What does the context show?

  4 What did Peter mean when he said, "That which corresponds to this"? He meant that baptism founded on faith corresponds to the preservation of Noah and his family, who were carried safely through the floodwaters that destroyed those outside the ark. As Noah needed faith to build the ark, all who become baptized disciples of Jesus Christ and witnesses of Jehovah must have faith to withstand pressures brought against them by this faithless world and its god, Satan the Devil.-Hebrews 11:6, 7; 1 John 5:19.

  Baptism Can Save Us

  20 By our works, we can show that "we belong to Jehovah." Why, salvation depends on working faithfully as his dedicated slaves! (Romans 6:20-23; 14:7, 8) In ancient times, slaves were often marked on the forehead. By the preaching work today, the antitypical 'man clothed in linen'-the remnant of Jesus' anointed followers-is 'marking' those who will survive the end of this system. In this work the anointed are assisted by their associates, the "other sheep." (Ezekiel 9:1-7; John 10:16) And what is the "mark"? It is the evidence that we are dedicated to Jehovah and are Jesus' baptized disciples who have a Christlike personality.

  21 Especially now is it vital that we have the "mark" and retain it, for we are deep into "the time of the end." (Daniel 12:4) To be saved we must 'endure to the end' of our present life or of this system. (Matthew 24:13) Only if we thus remain faithful as witnesses of Jehovah will baptism save us.
• 

  dozy

  I don't see anything obviously new in this article or even any new emphasis - it is basically a cut and paste job every 5 years or so for every new generation of youths. I recall similar articles when I was a teenager (always a bit embarrassing...).

  “Which particular form of full-time service appeals to you?”. They do not even give the JW youth a choice in the matter. It is automatically expected that once a JW youth finishes high school they will pioneer or enter Bethel service.

  An "assumptive either / or close" as it is known in sales. Using the either or strategy is employed by asking the prospect to make a choice of one of two alternatives, where both of them would indicate their positive decision. For example if the salesperson asked “have you decided which colour you prefer, will you be choosing the red one or the green one?”.
• 

  truthseeker

  A few more choice quotes on WT's requirement for salvation

  *** Watchtower 1987 April 15 pp.10-15 Gaining Peace With God Through Dedication and Baptism ***

  Gaining Peace With God Through Dedication and Baptism

  "Jehovah went on to say: ' . . . Any man upon whom there is the mark do not go near.'"-EZEKIEL 9:4, 6.

  GAINING peace with God? But why? Few persons consider themselves in conflict with God. Is it possible, however, to be an actual enemy of God and not be aware of it? The apostle Paul explained to Christians in the first century: "We all at one time conducted ourselves in harmony with the desires of our flesh, doing the things willed by the flesh and the thoughts, and we were naturally children of wrath even as the rest."-Ephesians 2:3.

  2 Likewise today, though you may be interested in pleasing God, sin inherited from Adam affects your outlook and can cause you to pursue "the things willed by the flesh." Even if you are a person studying the Bible with Jehovah's Witnesses or an unbaptized youth whose parents are Witnesses, a self-centered do-as-I-please attitude may characterize much of your life and continue to alienate you from God. A person who maintains such a course is 'storing up wrath for himself.' (Romans 2:5; Colossians 1:21; 3:5-8) God will express his anger completely during the fast-approaching "day of wrath and of the revealing of God's righteous judgment." (Romans 1:28-2:6) How can you gain peace with God and survive this "day of wrath"?

  Getting the "Mark"

  6 To be spared from God's wrath, those who 'sighed and groaned' had to be marked on their forehead. (Ezekiel 9:4) In ancient times slaves were often marked on the forehead to be clearly identified. Distinctive marks on the forehead and elsewhere might also show that a person worshiped a certain deity. (Compare Isaiah 44:5.) So, in our day, what is the distinctive, lifesaving mark that clearly identifies its bearers as true worshipers and slaves of Jehovah?

  7 The symbolic mark is the evidence, as if displayed on your uncovered forehead, (1) that you are a dedicated, baptized disciple of Jesus Christ and (2) that you have put on the Christlike new personality. (Ephesians 4:20-24) Since those thus 'marked' must first make a dedication, we need to know what this involves. Jesus explains: "If anyone wants to come after me, let him disown himself and pick up his torture stake and follow me continually."-Mark 8:34.

  Baptism-For Whom?

  12 Should even youths consider baptism? Well, recall that Jehovah told the six armed men in the vision: "Old man, young man and virgin and little child and women you should kill off-to a ruination. But to any man upon whom there is the mark do not go near." (Ezekiel 9:6) Of course, children too young to make a dedication would be protected by a parent's "mark" if that parent is striving to bring the children up to love Jehovah and if they are obediently responding. (1 Corinthians 7:14) Yet, if a child is intelligent enough to make a personal decision and has reached the point where he "knows how to do what is right," do not presume that he will continue indefinitely under the merit of his parent's "mark."-James 4:17.
• 

  metatron

  "why should you put off baptism?"

  because you are not an adult and , generally, cannot sustain mature decisions as an adult, as manifest by secular law,

  the divorce rate among teenagers and the massive numbers of young Witnesses who get disfellowshipped, year after

  year.

  Take special note of this deliberately deceptive article: it has become evident that they have a severe problem

  with young Witnesses - and don't want to debate the issue of teenagers getting baptised, given their immaturity.

  Too many Witnesses are awakening to the simple logic of teenagers not being able to sustain adult decisions.

  metatron