Why I became agnostic after leaving the Watchtower

by donny 11 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • donny
    donny

    One of many things that led me to agnosticism after leaving the JW's was the cognitive dissonance I encountered with those in the mainstream churches, especially the really conservative ones. These types would scream out in protest (rightly so) on all of the current atrocities going on in the world regarding Islam and its radical extremists, but then justify the savage murders and slaughter perpetuated by Israel in the Old Testament.

    Often I would take these passages and replace the names and places of these scriptures with current ones. For example 1 Samuel 15:3 reads "Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”

    When I would post a statement like "Now go, attack the infidels and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys,’”
    it was rightly declared to be hateful, evil and disgusting. But as soon as I told them it was a verse out of the Bible then the song and dance began of why it was not only the correct thing to do, but was sometimes told it was the only thing they should do.

    When David and Saul returned from a battle they were met by folks chanting "Saul has killed his thousands and David his tens of thousands." Can you imagine people or a politician stating such a thing today and it being viewed as a positive thing? But again, the defenders will find a reason to put such repugnant behavior in a positive light.

    Ever since the "sola scriptura" idea became popular a few hundred years ago and the "inerrancy of scripture" a few decades ago, it has created a group of people who will defend whatever terrible atrocity has occurred in its contents as long as the "good" folks were ones committing them.

    Another, more recent interesting phenomenon, has cropped up since the American church has become bed partners with the Republican party. When I was a child in East Texas I used to remember how my grandparents and those of their generation used to criticize the Republicans because they were ungodly and lovers of money. It was a Republican president in office when with the stock market crash of 1929 occurred (Herbert Hoover).

    Also an interesting note, it was the Democrats who were associated with war during the first part of the 1900's era. Woodrow Wilson (World War 1), Franklin Roosevelt (World War 2), Korean War (Harry Truman), Vietnam (Kennedy/Johnson). All but the last one were considered necessary and are generally viewed in a good light.

    Then in the 1960's when what was the conservative political party of the majority of white church folks, the Democrats, a rebellion started when their party began taking up the mantle the Republicans started under Eisenhower in desegregating the schools. The vast majority of white southern Democrats were against this forced mingling with a people they considered to be inferior, and they rebelled. It was Alabama Democratic governor George Wallace who infamously stated ""segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever"

    The Republicans being the clever and observant party they are, saw this huge group of people that were upset at their politicians and discovered the more they peppered their speeches with the word "God" and other Christian terms the more it appealed to them. This and the Democrats greedy attempt to be all things to all people backfired and within two decades millions who were once Democrat were now Republican.

    This was an interesting marriage. A group of folks who adhered to one that spoke more about greed and the evils of excessive wealth to the party that fostered such behavior. Like the bible says "Bad associations, spoil useful habits" and this association was no exception. As the marriage grew tighter we saw the American church become less and less about the virtues of the simple life, humbleness and concern for the needy and downtrodden to one of wealth, arrogance and the need to keep folks agitated and in fear. I have heard some tell me that if Jesus were here today he would be a Republican, however it would not be the Jesus of the New Testament.

    11 years ago, when I was still a Republican, I was invited to the home of a very wealthy person in San Jose. He and a few others present were great at telling folks what they wanted to hear. When he came to me for a few moments to chat, I told him that I was for the most part agnostic. His reply is one I will never forget. "Well so am I and most of the folks here. We just have to keep mentioning God and the like to keep the Dixie folks on board."

    Since then I have become totally agnostic and a political independent. The ones running the Republican party could care less about God and country. They would abandon both in a New York minute if they had to choose between their riches and them.

  • _Morpheus
    _Morpheus
    Im thinking i have some things to add but its late and i cant totally formulate my thoughts, but i did want say i enjoyed reading your take and agree with you on many points :)
  • SonoftheTrinity
    SonoftheTrinity

    If Jesus were alive today, he would be hanging out with homeless Jewish Christians who got cast out by their bourgeois parents somewhere in the San Fernando valley, turning bottles of Two Buck Chuck into Kristall. BTW did anybody see Black Jesus on Cartoon Network?

    I went back to the Orthodox Church after 7 years of being married to my wife and ashamed to show my face. I am attending for Lent. I have a lot of baggage to let go of, so I need a purge.

    Deep down though My priest would probably say I have become an antinomian.

    Deep in my heart,I believe in Christianity, but not Churchianity. I hate the empty suits no matter what the religion. If I were to preach I would probably continue my Nazarite vow but also do stunts like dress up all Twisted Sister only with my bushy beard to illustrate that America has whored out herself to Israel and Saudi Arabia. The prophets of The Bible were Patriotic Shock Jocks who ritually violated Jewish law to make a point, as did Jesus himself. Generation Y communicates everything through irony, afterall. A true preacher of God should violate norms to wake people up. Not knock on doors or produce a cheesy tv show being as nonthreatening as possible while promoting a totalitarian ecclesiolatrous religion. In this reality TV world they are as distracted as the people of Israel were in Christ's time. That understanding is sorely lacking from the pulpit. Gene Scott perhaps understood this, but he was a greedy megalomaniacal narcissist who abused that niche.

  • WheninDoubt
    WheninDoubt

    Very informative!!!!!!!!!!!

    Interesting question for convergence, whoever if you’re going to blame God, you would need a little more context.

    The God of Abraham, Jacob, and Isaac is a passive god. Since you used the O.T. to discredit God, then you need to fully see the picture. The line of Abraham were peaceful people, until they came across the line of Shem son of Noah. This people had become a mirror image of people that were destroyed for being evil in the flood.

    So in a sense, this people became heartless and had no mercy for mankind. After the enslavement of the Israelite in Egypt, and after God made them his chosen people after seeing the atrocities perpetrated by this soulless people, why would you think, the God of Abraham would show mercy to those who, first ran the Israelites out of their land before going to Egypt to be enslaved and treated with the same horrific abuse you mentioned here.

    The same thing the Islamic Muslim is doing once again. So that vicious cycle continues, and instead of blaming God, you should be blaming man for all its failures, and that is something that it taught in your agnostic faith, unless your being led astray as you think you were the first time around.

    The bible teaches all of us, to trust in God not man, for that very same reason. Your mind can be easily clouded by events to pass judgment, judgment that will ultimately fall in God’s hands not mans.

    However I don’t understand your vice in world wars. Whether or not they are democratic, Christ sacrifice included the mirrored saying, not to kill your fellow man, an echo of the 10 commandments that were not heeded. So the mayhem you see throughout is man-made, and has nothing to do with God.

  • cofty
    cofty
    The God of Abraham, Jacob, and Isaac is a passive god - Whenindoubt

    Yahweh was a genocidal, baby-murdering, psychopath.

  • LoveUniHateExams
    LoveUniHateExams

    Good OP, Donny.

    I've also become agnostic since leaving the WTS.

    For me, as I was leaving, it was the case that the brothers copied the WTS and regularly criticised 'Christendom' but stayed silent on Islamic terrorism. I mean, how can celebrating xmas or easter be worse that suicide bombing or decapitation?! When I put this to a young brother, this was his reply: 'but they're not real muslims. True muslims believe the same as us'

    I could have followed this up with ' so, will muslims worship Allah in mosques in the new system?' or 'will Jehovah destroy the religion of Islam at Armageddon?' but there's only so much bullsh1t I can take.

  • _Morpheus
    _Morpheus

    I dont want to derail donny's thread but im sick of hearing the 'jesus was a hippie' crowd. No he wasnt. He is portrayed as being more loving and kind than your average terrorist, i agree, but he still taugh death and destruction to those that didnt agree with him, including teaching fire and brimstone death in gehena.

    Also to add my .02 to the idea that the desert god is "passive" i say, bull. Sh**. the desert god claims to have killed every man woman child and animal in the world once and uses that as an example and promise that he will do it again. Far from passive.

  • TerryWalstrom
    TerryWalstrom

    As a sidebar. . . my grandparents reared me and told their story of the Great Depression, and how it was Hoover that ruined the country. I never questioned any of it because, after all, they had lived through it. It was many years later I started reading about Herbert Hoover.

    The man donated every paycheck he earned in government to charity. He had only been in office eight months when the Stock Market crashed. Within the space of 4 years he was able to balance the budget, enact the WPA to employ thousands, built the Hoover Dam, and taxed the rich by increasing their burden from 25% to 63%.

    So, why was Hoover so hated? It turns out he was completely on the side of PROHIBITION of LIQUOR!

    As the economy crashed, more and more unemployed Americans sought solace in alcohol--but--they were truly angered when it was snatched from their grasp--and who to blame?

    I only mention the above because it took me a long time to realize my view of the world and how it worked was shaped by the people who reared me. Like most honest, hard-working people, they were filled with misconceptions about damned near everything---including God.

    By the time I met the fellow who introduced me to Jehovah and his surly band of half-Wit-nesses, my proper knowledge of God and the Bible had been crippled to the point of misunderstanding the difference between reality and nincompoopery.

    My grandfather's number one goal in life was said to be, "To find the only true religion."

    That false premise was passed on to me, alas!

    Like Donny, I think most of us travel the path until the path leads to nowhere. Possessing a modicum of intelligence we stop and scratch our head in wonderment. "Does this road lead nowhere at all but circles?"

    Sanity only commences when we are able to lend a strong dose of skepticism to EVERYTHING we hear--and especially from those whom we trust!

  • freemindfade
    freemindfade
    You and I are in full agreement about the OT and religious atrocities, I even scolded my witness family last night for lusting after this blood bath they call Armageddon and said that the line between ISIS and them is very very thin, the old testament is full of righteous genocide, read many of the accounts the Israelites were the ISIS of the bronze age. Read the account when moses came down and they were worshipping the calf, its despicable. The leviites went and hacked up thousands of their brothers, sister, children, friends, then given "A blessing" from god. Sick
  • Marvin Shilmer
    Marvin Shilmer
    They would abandon both in a New York minute if they had to choose between their riches and them.

    For pragmatic purposes I usually go Republican. But I agree with what you write. I've often heard utterance of the "balanced" complaint "Democrats won't get out of my pocketbook and Republicans won't get out of my bedroom" or something to that effect. The reality is the mainstream in neither affiliation gives a damn about anyone's bedroom and both want more of the money in your pocketbook to be in their pocketbook. Frankly, I'd say it's a very small minority of Republicans that care what you do in your bedroom, but among these are some of the loudest blowhards on planet earth. But among these loud chest-thumping blowhards it never escapes my notice that they usually have found a way to put a lot of cash in their pockets over the years.

    For most of earth's population, its about increasing their own personal economic circumstance. It's about the money.

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