Luke 21:8, my discussion with an elder. (page 3)

AK - Jeff

I found this paragragh, just down the page from the one you pasted, to be revealing - I wonder how your 'elder' would react to it?

HOW

TO AVOID BECOMING PREY

Since twisted and counterfeit words and lip service to the Holy Scriptures are seen to be the point of departure from what is sound and true, it follows that our protection must be in a strong faith in the written Word of God. Tradition will not suffice; nor will some isolated Bible text that is interpreted in such manner as to do violence to the other plain teachings of the Bible. Whatever anyone asks you to accept as truth, be sure to require of him some clear basis for the teaching in Holy Scripture. Even as regards the religious association to which you now adhere, do not hesitate to inquire into the Scriptural foundations for its teachings. All of this means that you must be a diligent student of God’s Word. Paul counseled the young man Timothy: "Continue in the things that you learned and were persuaded to believe, knowing from what persons you learned them and that from infancy you have known the holy writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through the faith in connection with Christ Jesus." (2 Tim. 3:14, 15) So, too, if you have been taught from the Holy Scriptures, continue to study them. WT 11-1-64 page 646

MissBehave

I find it interesting that the NWT version of the scripture if I'm understanding correctly says "the due time has approached". Whereas the wording of other translations of the bible sound exactly like the message in every Watchtower, Awake, publication or talk from the platform. Hmmm, how clever...."let's re-word the scripture so it won't sound too much like what we're pounding into the heads of the R & F".

New International Version	The time is near
New American Standard Bible	The time is near
King James Version	the time draweth near
English Standard Version	The time is at hand
Contemporary English Version	Now is the time
New King James Version	The time has drawn near
American Standard Version	The time is at hand
New Life Version	The time is near

drew sagan

I would just like to add some more information. In addition to the fact that the society has only actually quoted that scripture at Luke 21:8 about 4 times in the past half century they have also said these certain "end of the world" buzzwords...

time of the end: 1248
end of this system: 337
end of this wicked system: 110
wicked system of things: 596
end of the world: 213
last days: 2032
day of Jehovah: 854
Armageddon: 4040

Keep in mind this is for the Watchtower magazine only!!!! Not including talks, conventions, or any other publication produced by the society!
Also, take the times these things have been published and times them by the number of actual publications they have actually printed with this stuff in it! WE ARE LOOKING AT BILLIONS OF FALSE SIGNALS GIVEN FOR CHRISTS RETURN!

AlanF

Good points, Drew and others!

This complete ignoring of biblical warnings goes straight to the top of the Watchtower cult. Back in 1994, I had a phone conversation with GB member Albert Schroeder (this was a followup to one some nine months earlier, arranged by my JW parents) about his failure to comment on some material I had sent him that he had promised to deal with. Near the end of the conversation, when I realized it was hopeless talking to this moron, I decided to challenge him with Luke 21:8. He got out his NWT (which he had a part in producing) and read the passage. I said, "Why does this clear warning not apply to Jehovah's Witnesses?" He needed no further prompting as to my implication, because he hemmed and hawed and tried everything to avoid giving a direct answer. I kept up prodding him and finally he said, "You're not going to let up until I give you an answer, are you!" I said, "No." He said, "Well, it can't apply to us, because we're God's people!" At that point I realized I was dealing with a complete idiot, and soon ended the conversation. This experience taught me in no uncertain terms that the rot in the Watchtower Society is systemic and cannot be rooted out.

What's amazing is that JWs on various levels can manage to come up with identical excuses, never having seen any of them explicitly discussed in print. I suppose the cult mindset generates similar braindead defenses.

The Society has produced a good deal of literature with titles that directly violate the spirit of Luke 21:8. Off the top of my head:

The Time Is At Hand (1889)
The Kingdom Is At Hand (1944)
The Approaching Peace of a Thousand Years (1969)
God's Kingdom of a Thousand Years Has Approached (1973)

There have been many others, and of course, copious violations of the spirit of Luke 21:8 in the text of Watchtower publications from its earliest days. That supposedly bright and spiritual men can so blatantly disregard a basic teaching of the one they claim to hold as their leader -- Jesus Christ -- goes to show how powerful cult brain-killing can be.

AlanF

PopeOfEruke

It's just the same way they doge and misdirect attention to Rev. 19:1, where its states a "great crowd in heaven".

If you check the index in the back of the green NWT it list I think 3 scriptures, the last of which is Rev. 19:4.

BUT IT DOES NOT LIST Rev 19:1!!

How easy would it have been to print Rev. 19:1,4 for example????

Dirty filthy rotten liars!

As I posted not too long back, I challenged my Mum over this and she went nuts! "Oh that's talking about the 144,000!!!" What??? Then she said about the missing index : must be simply a typing mistake!

jwfacts

Good approach, and it worked. You got straight to the heart of the matter, it does not matter whether or not it makes any sense, all that matters to a JW is that God chose the leaders. You now know that to get anywhere with him you need to attack that premise first or nothing you say will make any difference. Of course, it is pointless trying, but if he does want to speak to you again possibly ask him how he knows God chose them, and reason on some of the ideas in here. http://www.jwfacts.com/index_files/5min.htm

buffalosrfree

Luke 21:8 came up in a discussion in my van while we out in rural service. i had run across it and to me it was a clear warning not to be associated with those inviolation of this scripture. When I brought it up in the group, it was definitely a conversation stopper, and then the excuse for the society started coming out. but several people had their interest poked, one is now gone from the borg and as i understand it a couple of more are faders. Good for them.

I was told it was being like an apostate to question the governing body and the faithful and discreet slave, and when I asked just how did I do that when I showed this elder that scripture, he said, "you are intimating that people should stay away from the FDS, and not listen to the GB., I told him i said no such thing I asked you opinion of this scripture, and you come to the same conclusion that others have surely had, to not listen to GB AND FDS, so you came up with that on your own, Do the scripture show that there are any exceptions to this???? He of course did not have an answer. a very powerful scripture, and it should make people think.

Drew lots of luck with you and yours, and to hell with them, you may have scared that elder so much that he may not even mention it to others. Hopefully it will fill his mind at times like an unwanted tune from a song you don't like, just keep ticking and ticking away at him so to speak, we can only hope.

drew sagan

I am continued to be amazed at the stories we have surrounding this one particualar scripture. Just for a thought I would like to show another wierd factor in my expierance.
I actually wasn't really clear on this point a a week ago. I actually was planning on discussing something else with the elder when I told him we needed to talk. The week previous I had actually ordered a bunch of books about JWs I wanted to read but haven't gotten around to. Anyway, I started to read "Sign of the Last Days, When?". The Luke 21:8 argument just popped right out at me. There it was! The point I was going to use. Funny how things work huh? Not only that but the day before I met with the elder I showed my wife the very same point of reasoning. Usually she would get quite defensive, even scared at such discussion. But seeing that warning from Jesus himself made a complete change in her. She finally got my point. Things are going great now. It's so funny how thigns work out sometimes.

blondie

Try finding much about Luke 21:8 discussed in WTS publications. When the WTS wants an idea to be hidden, they just don't discuss it.

Blondie

xjwms

Drew

Great points for sure.

Making a final decision not to go to meetings, at all, anymore, was a pressure relief for me.......how about you?

Luke 21:8, my discussion with an elder.

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