I was a big Michael Moore fan before he started this crusade against bush. Not that I even agree with the war in Iraq, but Moores arguments are far from solid and are in this case sensationalized material. 'Roger and Me' was a far better movie.
Sgt. Peter Damon sues Michael Moore for $85 Million
by coffee_black 24 Replies latest jw friends
-
-
coffee_black
Orobus,
"As for the misuse, it doesn't seem to be extremely eggregious and not on par with some of the deliberate misleading engaged in my the WT so I would hardly compare the two."
I wasn’t talking scale…I was talking method. The method the Watchtower uses in quoting scriptural passages and scientific statements entirely out of context is the exact method that Michael Moore is accused of using. The Sgt. was talking about the physical pain he was having and the new medication that was helping. The quote was used in a different context to make it appear as if the Sgt. was in extreme emotional pain for being abandoned by his government. (which he wasn’t) It would be like someone making a “documentary” about the Watchtower using snippets from various threads you wrote and using your words out of context to make it appear as if you were promoting the society. Do you think that you would be upset?
Abaddon,
"I remember the clip. It's borderline; one certainly is given an impression BUT that is not due to anything explict in the segment, and if it's not explcit I don't think he'll get anywhere"
Sorry, Abaddon, but this reminds me of someone defending the borg…ie: “er…well …they never actually came out and said that Armageddon was coming in 1975”
Then you did something else that jws do… try to switch the focus onto George Bush. Sorry, Abaddon, but even if everything MM claims is true, the methods he is accused of using will discredit whatever else he says. If it is proven that he deliberately deceived his audience about this instance, than it calls everything else he has said into question. Just like when we discovered one incident of deception in the Watchtower…and it made us question other issues as well….and it all fell like a house of cards.
What if someone used parts of threads you wrote, edited them in a such a way as to make it look like you are a huge supporter of George Bush, and then used that material to promote George Bush internationally? Would you take that lying down? Skillful editors can make black look like white and vice versa...which is why you have to be so careful these days as to who to believe.
Time will tell. The Sgt. will have his day in court. It will be an interesting case to follow.
Coffee
-
SixofNine
What if someone used parts of threads you wrote, edited them in a such a way as to make it look like you are a huge supporter of George Bush, and then used that material to promote George Bush internationally? Would you take that lying down? Skillful editors can make black look like white and vice versa...which is why you have to be so careful these days as to who to believe.
What if I found an interview with a disfellowshipped person, who, in a candid moment told thru tears the story of her family shunning her and her children in their most dire hour of need. Suppose that I took a clip of that interview (released by whatever organization had filmed it originally) and included it in a documentary critical of Jehovahs Witnesses.Suppose that that woman later returned to the Truth(tm) and viewed having been disfellowshipped as righteous punishment; just what she needed. Or, suppose she just didn't like apostates. Or, suppose she was just an opportunist.
I almost hate to be so good at smelling this shit, but I swear, it's gotten to the point that I can actully smell bullshit thru pixels. All I have to do is go looking.
Oh look:
WASHINGTON (CNN)-- U.S. Sen. Edward Kennedy, an elder statesman among liberal Democrats, slammed President Bush and his administration for going to war in Iraq based on political considerations...He was flanked by Brian and Alma Hart, whose son John was killed in Iraq, and Army Sgt. Peter Damon, who lost both arms serving in Iraq...
lol. oops.btw, just for you context junkies, here's the ENTIRE interview from which the footage in question was taken:
[Williams]: Sergeant, how are you doing?
Sergeant PETER DAMON: Pretty good.
Corp. NELSON: The stories get more wrenching from room to room. Sergeant Peter Damon from Brockton, Mass., lost both arms.
Sgt. DAMON: Like I still feel like I have hands.
Corp. NELSON: Yeah.
Sgt. DAMON: And the pain is like my hands are being crushed in a vice. But they do a lot to help it. And they take a lot of the edge off of it. And it makes--makes it a lot more tolerable, you know, so I can just be a lot more comfortable. I--I can't imagine not having them.
WILLIAMS: Nice to meet you.
....and here's how it was used in the film:
MOORE: While Bush was busy taking care of his base and professing his love for our troops, he proposed cutting combat soldiers' pay by 33% and assistance to their families by 60%. He opposed giving veterans a billion dollars more in health care benefits, and he supported closing veteran hospitals. He tried to double the prescription drug costs for veterans and opposed full benefits for part-time reservists. And when Staff Seargeant Brett Petriken from Flint was killed in Iraq on May 26th, the army sent his last paycheck to his family, but they docked him for the last five days of the month that he didn't work because he was dead.
REP. JIM MCDERMOTT: They say they're not gonna to leave any veteran behind, but they're leaving all kinds of veterans behind. (video of Walter Reed Army Medical Center)
VETERAN: (in wheelchair) To say that we're forgotten -- I know we're not forgotten. But missed? Yes. Yes, you know there's a lot of soldiers that have been missed, you know, they've been skipped over. Um, that didn't get the proper coverage that they deserve.
VETERAN: They have the death toll but they're not showing the amount of people that have been injured and been amputated because of the injuries, you know.
(subtitle: Nearly 5,000 soldiers wounded in the first 13 months of the war.)
[Sgt. Damon]: Like I still feel like I have hands.
MOORE: Yeah.
VETERAN WITHOUT ARMS: And the pain is like my hands are being crushed in a vice. But they do a lot to help it and they take a lot of the edge off of it. And it, it, it just makes it a lot more tolerable.
Oh my, it almost looks as if Sgt. Damon was portrayed as an injured amputee in a segment about...uhmm... y'know..uh.. injured amputees and their treatment once they got home.
And what was his experience on coming home?
This is a report by ABC's Brian Ross from October, 2004:
A year after Staff Sgt. Peter Damon, a National Guardsman from Brockton, MA, lost both arms in an accident, he still hasn't been told what he can expect in disability payments and has no idea how he will support his family. Ross reports that the military provides no lump payments for catastrophic injuries such as his. Army Specialist Tyson Johnson of Mobile, AL, was badly injured when a mortar round exploded outside his tent. Johnson, like the other soldiers, says the medical care he has received has been excellent. But while he was still in a hospital bed, he says, the Army sent him a letter demanding he repay his enlistment bonus. He tells "Primetime" that the Pentagon's collection agency has been hounding him to repay the money and, he says, made it impossible for him to get a line of credit. Johnson has yet to even receive his Purple Heart medal.
Staff Sgt. Larry Gill of Semmes, AL, lost the use of his leg after a grenade exploded near him during a Baghdad street protest. While the military has presented him with his Purple Heart, it so far has not offered Sgt. Gill a plan for how he can make a living in civilian life. He says he will have to live off a small, monthly disability payment. Gill says as things now stand he will need to sell his home to make ends meet. Staff Sgt. Ryan Kelly of Abilene, TX, was a public affairs specialist for the Army severely injured when his unarmored Humvee was attacked. The military has not paid for him to go home or for his family to visit. He says he and other soldiers have had to rely on money they could borrow, or on charity, to see their loved ones. "Guys I've met...they'd be better off financially for their families if they had died, as opposed to coming back maimed," he says.
The biggest irony in all of this is that Damon was the first disbaled Iraq war veteran to receive a new house built by "Homes for Our Troops." A charitable organization prominately supported by Michael Moore. (most info from "Hesoid's" blog)
I don't think Sgt. Damon is going to win a penny from this, but the GOP will certainly energize some of it's more retarded base by making noise about it. Notice the timing.
-
LDH
This movie came out almost three years ago, now, right? This dodo just figured out that he was misrepresented? Bull cocky.
-
stevenyc
Ultimately this all comes down to releases. If the person interviewed signed a release form, then he will not get a penny.steve
-
Double Edge
Ultimately this all comes down to releases. If the person interviewed signed a release form, then he will not get a penny.
Yep... THAT's the bottomline. Forget the politics and who you do and don't like, it's a pure lack of business sense. MM still thinks he's a small, independent filmmaker who can use guerrilla filmmaking tactics and not dot the "i"s or cross the "t"s.... and now he's going to pay for it.
-
mkr32208
I see this one settling out of court for far less than what he is seeking
Unless he gets a republican judge then it might just go UP!
I dunno about MM I enjoyed most of bowling for Columbine he made some good points but then at the end it just fell apart! Like he had no real idea how to wrap it up or what else to say! Fahrenheit 911 was crap. I did enjoy Canadian bacon though!
-
TresHappy
I heard this guy on the Sean Hannity radio show yesterday. These guys are nuts...
Michael Moore was better in Roger and Me. Except when the lady hit the rabbit over the head and skinned it UGH!
-
William Penwell
No big deal, everyone does it. I am not saying its right but news media's take people out of context and misrepresent the facts everyday. Also Bush and company have been known to stretch the truth from time to time themselves.
Will
-
Abaddon
coffeeblack
"I remember the clip. It's borderline; one certainly is given an impression BUT that is not due to anything explict in the segment, and if it's not explcit I don't think he'll get anywhere"
Sorry, Abaddon, but this reminds me of someone defending the borg…ie: “er…well …they never actually came out and said that Armageddon was coming in 1975”
Defending? Pfff, quote only one line of my post and you might be able to say that, but then you're doing exactly what MM and GWB do; being deceptive to one extent or the other. Why not actually answer the questions instead of avoiding them;How come it is okay to be deceptive in the presentation of Millitary "Intelligence" so as to gather support for millitary action costing trillions of dollars and thousands of lives, but NOT okay to highlight the suffering of one soldier in illustrating the long-term concequences of the conflict?
Your answer coffeblack?
Even if that soldier will stand up (no pun intended) and say he supported the invasion, why is is wrong to point out he and others will be suffering every single day because of a war started on false pretexts?
Your answer coffeblack?
I wonder if the family of the dead, stiff, crispy Iraqui baby also featured in Farenheit 9/11 will sue him for showing people the damage war does?
How come people are so far less happy to talk about that bit of the documentary?
Your answer coffeblack?
Then you did something else that jws do… try to switch the focus onto George Bush.
The focus IS GWB; for christ sake, which is of greater improtance, a President who distorts facts or a film-maker who presents facts in an emotive fashion? Get some perspective. You are attacking someone with an anti-Bush message rather than deal with the criticisms so are as guilty if not more guilty of playing switch and bait.
Sorry, Abaddon, but even if everything MM claims is true, the methods he is accused of using will discredit whatever else he says.
That sentence doesn't make sense. If everything MM says is true, then Bush should be IMPEACHED as he is either criminally incompetent or just a plain old criminal.
If it is proven that he deliberately deceived his audience about this instance, than it calls everything else he has said into question. Just like when we discovered one incident of deception in the Watchtower…and it made us question other issues as well….and it all fell like a house of cards.
Funnily enough you are wrong. Despite the undoubted deception of the Borg, the vast majority remain in even though they will have been aware to some extent of the incident, justifying the Borgs actions.
Despite the fact that members of the Bush administration have been proven to have lied in the run-up to the invasion (although Bush avoided it himself going for vaugeness, implication, and passing the buck for acting on 'bad intelligence' that he knew was bad when he acted on it), the vast majority of Bush supporters remain Bush supporters and justify his actions.
I suppose you would be critical of a interview with a JW saying how much following the shunning doctrine cost them to obey being used in an xJW film? Your 'logic' indicates you would.
What if someone used parts of threads you wrote, edited them in a such a way as to make it look like you are a huge supporter of George Bush, and then used that material to promote George Bush internationally?
MM didn't do that to the soldier in question. He didn't cut up of edit the soldier's statements so as to create a false impression, he inserted a soldier talking of the pain of his injuries in a segment critical of Bush. That's misleading to an extent, but you stain the gnat whilst swallowing the camel; Iraq were not linked to Al-Q as the Bush admin repeatedly alleged, there was not a risk to the USA or neighbouring states from WoMD. Why are you seemingly happy about those lies?
Would you take that lying down? Skillful editors can make black look like white and vice versa...which is why you have to be so careful these days as to who to believe.
Again, why are you bent out of shape over film-makers using some of the same techniques politicians have succesfully used to decieve an entire nation in order to highlight the damage caused by those politicians? Which is worst, can you answer that? How's the camel tasting?