A LETTER FROM A JW concerning My Story on Randy's Freeminds Website

by Terry 23 Replies latest jw experiences

  • Terry
    Terry

    Just like work, you're only good if there's value in your employment. If you start going against the company, you either get fired or you quit. It doesn't matter what you've done in the past no matter how good it really was or if it was just in your head. A lot of people get layed off after serving many good years and suffer economic distress. Why do you think you're different? You don't want them they don't want you, move on. Ghandi had nothing but a towel and sandals when he died, was he robbed of his life too. I'm sure the world would known him more if had 10 millions dollars a mansion, a luxury yacht, a hot wife, and kids with Harvard degrees. Did you miss too much TV shows that could have improved your life? Your dramatic sob story doesn't make sense.

    Is it your purpose to save people from living a hellish life if they become a Jehovah's Witness? So what problems would one avoid if they follow you? Do you get more freedom? Nope, the city, state, and federal governement has more laws than this religion. Why, do you want to commit adultery and fornication but you were not allowed to do it? Isn't that a stance of just about any religion.? Why did Jehovah's Witness caused your divorce? You think you'll cure the world of divorce after you annihilate the Jehovah's Witnesses? Other religions or aethistic discipline don't have family problems? No rules so there's no chaos just mutual harmony.

    Do you feel you missed out but not serving and Vietnam and spilling the blood and guts of those vietcong women and men? Did Jehovah's Witnesses deprived you of a chance to kill in the name of freedom? Maybe you would have been better off dying with honor in the rice fields of Vietnam? Or maybe you would attract more chicks and sympathy with a war wound like moving around in a wheel chair with two legs blown off. A life of POW would have been better. Those Vietcong prisons were like club med compared to ours. I watched the news and I can not help but noticed the genuine glee of families of soldiers who died in combat.

    But you are doing an honorable job now. Bush has Al Qaeda, Al Gore the environment, UN permanent member against the threat of Iran and nuclear proliferation, Homeland Security against terrorism, Congress tackling child pornography, homosexuals for individual rights, U2 Bono for world hunger, and you and your friends against the evil Jehovah's Witness empire of magazine pushing army.

    Finally the true hero of world problems. Where do I send the check?!(Signed by somebody with an email name of Ron-ron R)

    Hi There Ron-ron R (aka naughtypants), Sometimes you can tell from the tone of a person's writing what sort of person they might be. For example, you don't address me by my name, Terry. So, the tone is impersonal. You begin your e-mail almost like a schoolteacher lecturing a child. That implies a superior sort of attitude. The messege is a sort of rant. It is filled with rhetorical flourishes like Job's tormentors when he was down and out; jabbing away at him indifferent to his plight. I've never met you, but, you've read my story on Randy's website Freeminds. What did the tone of my writing tell you? It was written with soul-searching honesty. I laid out my shortcomings in black and white. Why do you think I did? Obviously you missed the point. The autobiographical sketch had a purpose. It was not to bash Jehovah's Witnesses. I can do that easily enough with my experience, but; I chose to reveal how I personally came to be involved and how it impacted my life. I take responsibility for my intellectual anemia in failing to do better research when I was being indoctrinated at first. The course of my life once I was baptised is my own failing. I made choices which appeared to be the best possible ones available to me. I was wrong, wrong wrong! So, my story is a cautionary tale. That is what responsible people do when they make terrible mistakes; they warn others. I fell into a hole and I've gone back and put up a sign that says: Hey! Don't fall into this hole. That was my purpose. Now, to address your semi-serious questions. I'll put my responses in red.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Ron-ron R <[email protected]>

    Subject: Your Story

    Just like work, you're only good if there's value in your employment. If you start going against the company, you either get fired or you quit. It doesn't matter what you've done in the past no matter how good it really was or if it was just in your head. A lot of people get layed off after serving many good years and suffer economic distress. Why do you think you're different? Do you know what a Whistle-Blower is? Of course you do. Whistle-blowers warn of fraud or harm in a company and they are now protected by law. That is how I am different. People who remain inside a fraudulent enterprise and keep their mouths shut just to collect the paycheck are morally bankrupt.

    You don't want them they don't want you, move on. Ghandi had nothing but a towel and sandals when he died, was he robbed of his life too. He was murdered by a religous zealot. What do you think?

    I'm sure the world would known him more if had 10 millions dollars a mansion, a luxury yacht, a hot wife, and kids with Harvard degrees. The world knows Ghandi, you silly person. What is your point?

    Did you miss too much TV shows that could have improved your life? Your dramatic sob story doesn't make sense. When I was a JW I did what you do: I wasted my time telling people things that aren't true with great personal confidence that I was right.

    Is it your purpose to save people from living a hellish life if they become a Jehovah's Witness?

    I have a friend who is still an active JW and his life is indeed hellish. He never got an education and has worked at pathetic jobs raising five kids who are all disfellowshipped because they think their Dad is out of touch with reality.

    So what problems would one avoid if they follow you? I have no followers. A person who heeded my warning might investigate the false prophecies of the Watchtower Society and conclude they are involving themselves with liars.

    Do you get more freedom? Nope, the city, state, and federal governement has more laws than this religion.

    Your logic is just goofy, my friend. A JW has those federal laws PLUS the silly iron hand of the Governing Body on the most intimate details of their daily life. The JWs are run by a group of Pharisees who bind them with heavy burdens. Elders are like the watchful eye of Big Brother. Wake up and smell the coffee.

    Why, do you want to commit adultery and fornication but you were not allowed to do it?

    I was a virgin when I married at age 23. My character is rational and my personal history is an open book. What is your story?

    Isn't that a stance of just about any religion.? Why did Jehovah's Witness caused your divorce?

    Is English your second language? My first wife was never the same after the 1975 debacle broke her heart. She actually believed with all her heart that the Society knew what it was talking about. The prophecy about Armageddon was a lie and she felt the rug pulled out from under her. She was a True Believer and they stumbled her with their deceit.

    You think you'll cure the world of divorce after you annihilate the Jehovah's Witnesses?

    Jehovah's Witnesses have a high enough divorce rate without my help. I annhilate nobody; the JW's do it to themselves quite handily by not owning up to their own failures.

    Other religions or aethistic discipline don't have family problems? No rules so there's no chaos just mutual harmony. What planet did you say you were from? All Christian religions have their shared ethos of do's and don'ts. There is no superiority in one or the other.

    Do you feel you missed out but not serving and Vietnam and spilling the blood and guts of those vietcong women and men? You are ignorant of what I was required to do as told me by my congregation overseer. What I could have done as specified by law is work on behalf of people in a State Hospital. I was sentenced to do so but required to refuse. So, my choice was never one of killing people or not. The law of the U.S. allows conscientious objectors to perform alternate service. Now do you get it?

    Did Jehovah's Witnesses deprived you of a chance to kill in the name of freedom? You sound bizarre and slightly deranged!

    Maybe you would have been better off dying with honor in the rice fields of Vietnam?

    I repeat, my ignorant friend, the Watchtower Society secretly conspired with local overseers to advice draft-age brothers to refuse ALTERNATE SERVICE. In other words, we were advised to break the law.

    Or maybe you would attract more chicks and sympathy with a war wound like moving around in a wheel chair with two legs blown off. Thanks for reminding me how backward JW's are about women. You are living in the early 70's culturally. It is no longer considered respectful to refer to women as "chicks". Wise up.

    A life of POW would have been better. Those Vietcong prisons were like club med compared to ours.

    You are rambling on like you actually know anything about prison. I'm convinced you are in a fantasy world.

    I watched the news and I can not help but noticed the genuine glee of families of soldiers who died in combat.

    So, you watch the SCI-FI channel? What a loser!

    But you are doing an honorable job now.

    You define honor, of course, as doing the bidding of old men in Brooklyn NY.

    Bush has Al Qaeda, Al Gore the environment, UN permanent member (careful, the Watchtower Society was an NGO for awhile!) against the threat of Iran and nuclear proliferation, Homeland Security against terrorism, Congress tackling child pornography, homosexuals for individual rights, U2 Bono for world hunger, and you and your friends against the evil Jehovah's Witness empire of magazine pushing army.

    You against the world, right? Everybody is wrong but you? That is how a cult member thinks. JW's actually think the content of the magazines they push is "food at the proper time" but, history shows it is filled with crackpot lies and false prophecy. Does that give you any clues?

    Finally the true hero of world problems. Where do I send the check?!

    Look up cynical in the dictionary. Write the check out to a local college and take a course in religious history. Devote some time to early Christianity and see how many lies you've been taught by the Watchtower crew.

    You are wound up like an old clock.

    The fact that you'd waste your time on an Apostate when you've been carefully instructed not to by Jehovah's anointed marks you as a person of spiritual weakness.

    I suspect you have many doubts, but, lack the couraged to discuss them with your keepers. That would truly be heroic on your part. You talk the talk but cannot summon the courage to walk the walk.

    I wish you all the best.

    I know where you are coming from. It is a dark and unfriendly place empty of humanity and drained of human happiness. Break free and drop me a line some time.

    All the best,

    Terry Walstrom

  • tall penguin
    tall penguin

    Nice reply Terry. This person's logic or lack thereof is quite astounding. You handled yourself well.
    tall penguin

  • Scully
    Scully

    That Ron Ron person sounds quite a bit like our old buddy Jabriol from the heydays of the alt.religion.jehovahs-witn news group on Usenet.

  • lawrence
    lawrence

    Terry-

    Awesome replies. He can send the check to me. I won't say raca, but i'll say poor fool, sure we all wanted to be in wheelchairs with medals to get the "chicks." What a shmuck, eat crap moron!

  • helppls
    helppls
    I watched the news and I can not help but noticed the genuine glee of families of soldiers who died in combat. --Ron Ron R

    Terry--Your response to this person's letter is very admirable...very logical, concise and thoughtful. Unfortunately, the same could not be said of his. The above statement is a case in point. My God! It is obscene to imply that "families of soldiers who died in combat" showed "genuine glee". But then again, many jws see only what their twisted minds are trained to see........

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    Well done Terry, I was reading some of your articles and listening to your music on the weekend. I have received similar emails to my website, and similar comments from my family. It is amazing how illogical and uneducated a JW will become when discussing anything that undermines their faith. It seems that once inside the machine a JW can not think for themselves, the arguments, though illogical are always the same.

    When I put up my site my mother said that I am a traitor, and no one respects of likes traitors. I made very much the same point as you and reminded her that the previous year Time magazine have made two whistle blowers their 'man of the year'.

    This is the point I make when i have been told that a company has the right to sack their employees. A company does not tell its employees that God made the rules and their eternal life is involved. An organisation has the right to dismiss non-compliers, but they do not stipulate that the ex-employee must never again speak to anyone in the organisation. They don’t hire school children, encourage them to only socialise with members of the company, and then sack them after 20 years once they have no circle of friends outside the company. They don’t say that because they have been sacked, their family must not associate with them or else also face being sacked. People are free to come and go to various jobs and when they choose to leave they regularly continue friendships with fellow workers that they grew close to.

  • Terry
    Terry


    A NEW E-MAIL ARRIVED THIS MORNING:
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Ron-ron R <[email protected]>

    Subject: Re: Your Story

    I would write in a sexy tone but it's not my style. And Good Morning to you too! Nor am I the look how nice I and listen to my horrible story type. Most of my friends think I'm an ass and you're more than welcome to feel the same. That is most revealing. Friends are usually people who share our values. Am I to conclude you have a low opinion of yourself as well? If so, I'm sorry. Absorbing a group identity with a cult is not an improvement. As I indicated before, your tone reminded me of just every sob story of a person who quit or got fired of a company. None of these stories by the way have anything to do with whistle blowing, just the fact that a lot of these experiences are from people who think they know more than the company. That's what your story reminded me of. Assuming you are constructing an analogy between a busines and a religion I'll point out why this is not going to work. A business doesn't tell you God is running it and that if you are fired you will die at Armageddon. a business does not control relationships to the extent employees must shun you and family members consider you as a stranger. In a word: CONTROL is the issue. A fired employee is not analagous to an Apostate; not by a long shot. Think about it. Your so called wasted time with the Jehovah's Witnesses is nothing different from divorced women giving their best years of their life to the man they thought love them and being dumped for a younger woman. They made their choice and it was their decision and no one else to blame. This isn't deep-thinking is it? A divorced woman is legally entitled to HALF the assets when the break is final and often is compensated for the loss of time spent in the relationship with alimony. Child support is often ordered by the court and the maintenance is considered necessary BECAUSE nobody gets to live the lost years over again. The story is very sensationalist, just because it didn't work for you doesn't mean it should not work for anyone. I notice you conveniently omit the most essential aspect of the entire discussion; FALSE RELIGIOUS DOCTRINES are the core of Jehovha's Witness messege. The religion is a big fat lie! Or, does that matter to you??? Obviously there are people like your Jehovah's Witness friend who chose to stay with this group. I would applaud your sainthood about doing a good deed and warn people about this religion but then with all the different religions in the world, why single out this one. You aren't familiar with my writing are you? I DO direct my warning against all forms of mind control, mysticism and self-effacement by control groups and religions everywhere. (Incidentally, a question usually has punctuation after it: ???) Ghandi was killed by a Hindu radical not a Jehovah's Witness, I was under the impression that you were against Jehovah's Witness and not religion itself. Your impression is wrong. Religious fanaticism is the fundamental issue. Jehovah's Witnesses are fanatics and so was the man who killed Ghandi. People convinced they serve God and possess absolute truth are dangerous. My point on Ghandi having an alternate rich life is to point out that I don't feel that he wasted his time. He's life was harsher than your experience and I don't think he would feel the same that he wasted his life with his convictions. The poor Ghandi will be long remembered than the preppy rich Ghandi scenario I created. I know you don't like symbolism but too bad you can't control my style of writing. You're starting to sound like those Witnesses. Oh dear! This is a false dichotomy. Ghandi's choices in life were a bit more expansive than this. And besides, you are the one who seems fixated on Ghandi. I don't recall mentioning him in MY STORY. How is he relevant in the first place??? Oh call the Pope and get a sainthood for trying to save your Jehovah's Witness friend. Why do you care so much about saving him. Obviously he doesn't care about what you think if he's still with them. Being callous about the fate and quality of life of a friend doesn't appeal to my character. I value him. If you are taught to regard people as expendable you toss them away when they stop agreeing with you. I see you have real issues when it comes to understanding the principles of Friendship and integrity. Have the same conviction about drunk drivers , you'll probably save more lives. Try being consistent with the site Freemind, let him be free to make up his mind about things instead of you running his life. He heard you and he heard the Witnesses, and you're all pouting because he didn't listen to you?! He has a pathetic job with 5 kids who thinks he's crazy, sound like a Mexican Catholic to me. My friend made a choice based on information from Jehovah's Witnesses which was false. JW's have outside data hidden from them; they are not allowed to investigate their own history. I feel confident that he is innately intelligent enough to make a better informed decision about his life if he had the TRUTH, the WHOLE TRUTH and NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH. Witnesses are mind-washed into believing the only "truth" is what the old men in Brooklyn NY say it is. You're going to save them too. Good for him for doing the pathetic job. Without janitors, sewer maintenance worker or gardener. If everyone's a medical doctor or an electrical engineer, this world will be so dirty. But this is an economic argument which is another story. You might want to examine your values. I hear a snarling disdain for humanity boiling beneath the surface. There are always two choices open to us: IMPROVE your lot in life or SURRENDER to the mess you are in. I advocate moving forward and you seem to say: let them rot. Am I wrong? Regarding your comment that if they follow you then they will heed the false prophecies of the Watchtower. So why single them out? The Catholics, Protestants, Baptist, Shiite's, Shia's, Hare Krishna's, Scientologists, Budhists, Hindus, Atheists, Calvary Church, Televangelist, and Satanist all disagree with each other why not attack them too. Telling the truth about what religion does to a person's mind is what I am all about. The spectrum of choice is vast. You have religions which improve your life and you have toxic brain-wash cults on either extreme. Whatever a person chooses for themselves needs to be an informed decision. I provide information. Can they all be true and you're just saving the world from Jehovah's Witnesses? You're so concern about them being liars? What about the politician, why are they not attacked? Moderation isn't an arrow in your quiver, is it? Look at life in terms of the funamental issues. People in power can be a boon to others or they can leech off those under them by duplicity and misrepresentation. I promote the idea that each of us has as a first priority their own rational mind. We are responsible for making sure that we have the capacity to think clearly and exercise the right to focus on what improves our lot in life. Once you can make rational choices based on accurate information the result is beneficial. I advocate this. Oka, I'm going to try and wake up but I don't drink coffee. So the elders are the watchful eyes like big brother? What exactly are they looking for? How many elders compared to the members? How exactly do they keep watch? Once they find what they look for what do they do? Any organization has rules. The company owns my e-mails can track me by GPS from my mobile phone, read my e-mails, record and listen to my phone conversation. If they find anything they don't like they can fire me. What's wrong with that. If I don't like it I can go somewhere else. It's a free marker system what's the big deal. The analogy, once again, fails. Jehovah's Witnesses pound into your brain that there isn't any other company to work for. They make certain you view all religion as Satanic. If you leave the Organization you die by the hand of Almighty God. A business can make no such claims. If you cannot see a clear difference you might want to seek some professional help. In this religion your "choice" is at the point of a gun: live with us or die. The employment is at will, just like your membership with the Witnesses. So you have something to hide from them and you don't like them snooping, then good for you and them that you severed the relationship. I assume they have lots of members who don't have problems about their rules. Why should you impose your rule of having less rule on them? Again, what authority do you have to dictate how people live their lives? People are only free in their personal decisions when they have choices. The choices must be seen clearly without prejudice. When you are indoctrinated by a cult you are given a view of the world colored by an array of falsely colored choices. This damages your mind and your thinking is not analytical; it is reactionary. It becomes Pavlovian stimulus/response. You don't want to know about my sex life. I have slept with too many women, and started a lot younger than 23. Don't worry I think your ex-wife was too old for me when she was drinking and partying. And now I'm supposed to admire you? The 1975 Armageddon lie you're wife was so dissapointed about. So she felt bad that the world didn't end back then? Why is that? What about those apostles, didn't they think the end was going to happen in their time to? Wasn't that almost 2000 years of being less accurate? Wasn't there a story in the Old Testament about God sending a prophet to warn a city for destruction and God didn't. Will it be the same conclude that the Jewish God lied? The carrot and the stick of the Christian religion is this: 1.The end is near 2.Better join us if you want to live Yes you are right about me being ignorant about your choices during the war? I'm not as old as you are and never had to worry about drafts. Didn't Ali go to prison for refusing to go to war. Now there's a real man I don't remember him crying about Islam causing him to go to prison. He was proud of his action. I have no problems beating up a guy but like Ali I can't imagine shooting someone with a cause that I don't share. Muhammed Ali and I went to prison at exactly the same time. The difference in reasons is vast. I wasn't faced with a KILL OTHERS or GO TO PRISON choice, as I've mentioned. I was instructed to refuse "alternate" service in a hospital. I spent three times the amount of confinement time as Ali. And for the record: if I had cried in prison they would have beat the crap out of me. Amazing that Jehovah's Witnesses have a high divorce rate? How is it compared to one out of three marriages in the U.S. fail? What exactly do the Jehovah's Witnesses do that give them a high divorce rate. Jehovah's Witness men view women as personal property who must do their bidding. The husbands have crappy low-paying jobs and waste their free time hawking religious books and magizines. The wives lead lives of quiet desparation covering their heads and giving a smiling "yes sir" to any male in the vicinity. Children are exposed to a black and white existence where they don't get to lead a normal life or experience any fun. The comments about Vietcong prison as club med and the happy families of dead GI, your honorable job, are sarcasm. What planet are you from? Earth....and you? I don't know much about Jehovah's Witnesses and I was trying to get information from you since you put yourself as an expert out there. So what lies do they have about early Christianity? No I don't think I'll go to the local college and take religion 101, that's beneath me. So, you are telling me you are defending a religion you know nothing about? Now who is the hero? If you don't take the necessary steps to inform yourself about things, how can you even have an opinion about them? That's funny that you call yourself an apostate, a traitor that is. What spiritual weekness are you talking about? There's no logic in your writings. When a person quits an ideology or religion the group they leave behind labels them APOSTATE. I regard myself as a survivor. Would you know logic if you encountered it? Logic is the art of gathering, identifying and integrating accurate evidence. Logic requires NON-CONTRADICTORY identifications. The truth about anyone or anything contains no contradictions. For example: The people who run the Jehovah's Witness relgion claim they are the "mouthpiece of God" who feed his worshipful followers accurately with "food at the proper time". This is contradicted by the false prophesies they've published and taught door to door for over a hundred years. LOGIC indicates they are LIARS. See how that works? All this rah rah rah about them being bad and that but how do I know that you're not the one lying and not them. What about their side of the story. Well, if you want information you might have to get up off your dusty duff and find it for yourself. OK here's one but then it applies to any religion really. David was God's prophet and he was in the true religion in his time. So here I am Mr. good old Saint Terry living back then warning people how David is a murderer and an adulterer and we should form our won Ex-Jewish David King Ex-Members or whatever? Like you I'll be writing about this in scrolls and tablets for people to see. Would I have been right? Back to Logic again....your statement contains presuppositions which are not proven to be true and this means all your conclusions will be just as false. David was a King and not a Prophet. The religion of his people wasn't just ONE monolithic thing (as we are taught in Sunday School.) It was an heterogenous array of pagan beliefs and superstitions and monotheistic mixtures. Depending on your tribe and your locale you might hardly agree with your neighbor down the road. Historically, it is the work of the redactors of scripture to create the illusion that their was a single RELIGION of the Hebrews which worshipped the only true God. This, my friend, is what mythos is all about. Anyway, so where do you guys meet so I can visit once in a while. I like arguing. Unlike you I went to college with three degrees and an MBA. I love arguing. Just as long that it's not like an AA meeting with sob stories about being beaten up by nuns in Sunday School or I might start spanking people myself. It is easy to tell from your writing, sentence structure and reasoning skills that you are a man of more learning than I possess. Unfortunately, I have no location for you to attend and there is no body of beliefs to which a group of us Ex-JW's subscribe. It is because we have been damaged that we cluster around Discussion Groups websites to vent and commiserate and share our personal stories. I suspect you have been involved in a family of JW's and that you might be feigning ignorance about the Watchtower Society. Why else would you waste your time debating their culpability in destroying people's faith and damaging their lives? At any rate, that's all from me. I wish you well. I hope you continue your inexhaustible search for true information about all things. Terry Walstrom

  • Scully
    Scully

    Funny how he is challenging you for "singling out" the JWs as being a false religion. LOL

    Why only single out the JWs, and not the Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Scientologists, etc, etc, ad nauseum?

    Well, isn't that precisely how the WTS operates already? No sense re-inventing the wheel on that point. Besides, if the WTS is going to point out the Falsehoods™ in other belief systems, why do they feel that they are immune to the same critical examination that they are so keen to do with respect to other belief systems? Are they so special* that they feel they are above being reviewed in the same fashion that they examine other faiths?

    * Short-bus special notwithstanding.

  • truth.ceeker
    truth.ceeker

    This is so disturbing on many levels. From the tone of the letters, the sender appears to be caught in a mental loop that he cannot break out of. My wife and I have run into so called witnesses such as he. One sister said she could never wear skirts as short as my wife and always looked down on her. Well guess what, a couple of years later and she is divorced, had plastic surgery on her breasts and is now dancing for a living. I don't judge what a person does to earn a wage, but I do have something against someone who judges me or my family and then turns around and does something similar or worse. It goes to show how pent up jw's really are and how they are trying to live a double life. Because they know deep down inside they either don't fully believe or don't want to. There are many more life experiences on the same line, but you get the idea. Kudos to you for your efforts in helping this poor soul see the truth. Whether he sees it now or later, you will have planted the seed of light, and that is about all we can do, only GOD can make it grow as he knows the heart.

    ..my two cents..
    truth.ceeker

  • Terry
    Terry
    Well, isn't that precisely how the WTS operates already? No sense re-inventing the wheel on that point. Besides, if the WTS is going to point out the Falsehoods™ in other belief systems, why do they feel that they are immune to the same critical examination that they are so keen to do with respect to other belief systems? Are they so special* that they feel they are above being reviewed in the same fashion that they examine other faiths?








    I often pointed that out to my friend (who is still in the Kingdumb Hall snoozing).

    "Johnny, when you go door to door you expect people to challenge their own beliefs by reading your books and magazines, right?"

    "Yes."

    "But, you won't do the same if another religion comes to your door, right?"

    "Well, I already know I have the true religion. It would be pointless."

    "So, the people you see when you knock on their door---these people don't already "know" they have the true religion?"

    "They probably think they do."

    "But, they COULD BE WRONG?"

    "Of course."

    "But, you couldn't be wrong."

    "No. I KNOW what I believe is true."

    "Can there be a better example of a closed mind than this? If you don't investigate and challenge your own confidence you become like

    people who you meet at the door who slam it in your face. You'd call them hard-hearted goats; right?"

    "That's different."

    "Sure. Because you want it to be."

    We had many discussions like that.

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