One of my sons (never a JW) lost his wife several weeks ago. He and I have always had a good relationship even after I severed my ties with the WT. My other son (a JW) attended. I, the only apostate in the bunch, and my wife (not their mother) attended the funeral.
On the one hand I was pleased that we all got to spend some time together after 27 years of snubbing. During relaxed moments, he (the JW) gladly answered every question I asked him about various people we mutually knew, their health status, what they're up to, his work, his hobbies, my grandchildren, his wife, etc. On the other hand he never asked anything about me or mine -- but I accepted that and appreciated what we did talk about.
We actually had some great and enjoyable moments despite the sad event. Never was there any mention that he was using the "family business" leeway the society allows at such functions. I suspected in advance this would be the case based on what I've learned here on JWD but I didn't want to embarrass him by asking the hard question.
Which brings up my question, one which I haven't seen posed here. What scriptural argument do they use for selective shunning. Yes, I'm familiar with the "not even eating with" BS they misuse -- but what scriptural grounds is there for exceptions, like a "family business" clause that allows for dialog, hugs and greetings at certain family events, while proceeding to shun at all other times? Do they think the Apostle Paul had some mental lapse in the heat of the moment and forgot to mention the exceptions?
I'm of the "don't do me any favors" mentality and I was somewhat angered as I saw my son act as a pawn at the behest of the jerks of Brooklyn.
Fats
Family business after 27 year Dub Snub
by Fatfreek 10 Replies latest jw experiences
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Fatfreek
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blondie
Good question, FF. Actually, I think it is just a dodge the FDS uses because they value money so highly. They have reasoned that in Jewish times a person would have been put to death for such "crimes" and so no one could talk to the sinner at all. But evidently they can communicate with them regarding business???
Blondie
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What-A-Coincidence
the answer could be in the Flock Manual
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A Paduan
From what I have read, it isn't an exception to the rule, but an expectation to obey another rule, namely that one has to look after their own family - which the jws can narrow in their own mind to mean "matters of baseline money".
The shunning is a stuff up that requires mental gymnastics to appease some semblence of another rule - it's not an exemption per se
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sass_my_frass
Yeah there's no scriptural basis for the 'except on matters of important family business' thing, and I've not yet worked out what my family consider 'important family business'. I expect that it will be something along the lines of contributing to their retirement fund, to which I will reply 'you'll have to make me family again if you want me to assume family responsibilities'.
Anyway I hope that your son was doing okay after losing his wife. :(
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greendawn
The WTS is so money minded and anything to do with money has to be an exception. I wonder what they did with Michael Jackson who gave them so much money did they ever D'F him? No ordinary dub would get away with the things he did.
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Dismembered
Greetings Fatfreek
:Which brings up my question, one which I haven't seen posed here. What scriptural argument do they use for selective shunning. Yes, I'm familiar with the "not even eating with" BS they misuse -- but what scriptural grounds is there for exceptions, like a "family business" clause that allows for dialog, hugs and greetings at certain family events, while proceeding to shun at all other times? Do they think the Apostle Paul had some mental lapse in the heat of the moment and forgot to mention the exceptions?
I'm sure if anyone was to research the "selective shunning "rule they'd find it in print somewhere, and try to defend their actions, as just about very kind of "life's scenarios" questions and or, situations have been posed to Mother-Watchtower. None of that matters though, if one is a high enough WT echelon a.k.a PO or "elder". They can, and do whatever they want, and NO ONE questions it.
Case and point of this: Some years ago, friends of mine who were JW's years back decided to adopt a child and did. Years later they moved across the country, divorced, and both left WT. She was DF'd, re-married a "worldly" person. This boys step dad simply stayed away and became what one might term as a nomadic vagabond. Years passed the adpoted boy grew up with his stepmom and her new "worldly" husband for the most part, but he kept in touch with his original stepdad too. Long story short, is this adopted boy committed suicide for various reasons. To many to type here. Well the funeral discourse was to be held at Grange Hall. Remember Stepmom (DF'd) & Stepdad had NOTHING to do with Watchtower for years, yet stepdads brothers, (two overbearing "elders") showed up to this funeral arrangement, took over the proceedings and turned it into the typical Watchtower Funeral talk, even though the deceased killed himself, and never had anything to do with Watchtower in the short life he lived. In the audience were several DF'd ones that said F K You Watchtower many years ago. Yet these two bulldozer elders had no problem taking over, and again attempted to use this ocassion for the advancement of WT membership. We know what Watchtower thinks of those who commit suicide: No ressurection!
It's this kind of blatant family rule bending that got me started to thinking. How do they get away with that shit? But they did. No one questioned them, or the gathering.
Dismembered
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Fatfreek
Hmmm .... it had never occurred to me that "family business" had a thing to do with money (honest) but it kinda makes sense that the GB would relax one of their major rulings because of it.
I always attributed the exception thing to their taking the easy way out, an act of cowardice in a sense.
"GB number 1: Yeah, let's invoke the snubbing policy -- no matter what."
"Wait", says GB number 2, "How would this look to outsiders (potential customers) attending, say, a funeral. Here, a father attempts to hug one of his sons but is rejected and snubbed -- in front of everyone. These onlookers can't possibly understand how evil this father was when he walked away from our teachings 27 years ago. I say provide a temporary window of leniency to prevent the above scenario and we can call it Necessary Family Business. Son can accept the hug gracefully and onlookers can be greatly impressed."
Fats
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Fatfreek
I'd like to expand on that thought of "cowardice", when referring the the governing body.
Some 30 years ago when I attended the ministry school for elders in Des Moines, I will never forget the answer to my question while there, "What is the difference between disfellowshipping and disassociating?"
Good question, brother. The answer, plain and simple, is war strategy. We must prove "... ouselves cautious as serpents and yet innocent as doves". The governments of this world, our enemy, cannot possibly understand our position when we cut off one of our members by disfellowshipping that member when he joins a branch of military service. By disfellowshipping that "turncoat to Jehovah" we could make ourselves vulnerable to their evil laws. We could be placing ourselves directly in their line of fire, those of sedition charges if we disciplined a member who has decided to sleep with the wicked enemy by joining it. That could severely disrupt the work in our country. It could shut down headquarters.
No, brothers, a far safer way is to provide a different avenue of cutting off by telling the congregation that the offending member has cut himself off. We, instead use the term, disassociation. The evildoer, we tell the congregation, "has disassociated himself from the Christian congregation". The treatment of that person by the congregation is no different, he will be shunned the same as being disfellowshipped, and we protect ourselves from the evil and wicked governments of this world from their sedition charges. "Oh no, we didn't cut him off for joining your military. We didn't disfellowship him. He cut himself off by disassociating himself from our group."
Cowards.
Fats
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blondie
FF, that is exactly the same reasoning that made the WTS change taking a blood transfusion from being a DF offense to DAing yourself. Of course, you won't find anything in writing, just the non-letter the CO read to the elder bodies.
Blondie