by wozadummy 17 Replies latest jw friends
Do you remember years ago this was mentioned among the brothers in conversations about Elders? Yet I cannot ever recall being directed to a scripture which proved ALL Elders were appointed by Holy Spirit. It seems that everyone just accepted that they were, including myself , and yet how is this possible considering how many I've seen were corrupt when appointed.
Any others think about this when in the Org
i think about it more now that im out....i didnt think enough for myself to think otherwise back then....even though at times i would see and hear of elders doing naughty things at times.....did make me wonder.....but then theres always the excuse of "imperfectoin"
As you say there is no scripture that directly says this, the way they say they are appointed by holy spirit, is that the Bible was written by means of it, and therefore the qualifications set out there in. But as you know its easy to be a white washed grave!
CS 101
Yeah we seemed to just accept but I think of one MS who for years thought he was looked over for Eldership and when his wife was visiting relatives in the UK the body appointed him an Elder. Well he was at that time having marital problems ,did'nt ask his wife if the appointment was OK with her, and he had a serious drinking problem......well he was full of spirit OK but not that holy!!! Funny how our minds get blocked to reasoning on these things when your in.
(Acts 20:28) Pay attention to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the holy spirit has appointed YOU overseers, to shepherd the congregation of God, which he purchased with the blood of his own [Son].
Above is the scripture they frequently refer to.
New International Version (NIV)Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.
Notice this circular reasoning.
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w85 8/1 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***?
How does the holy spirit work along with the modern-day Governing Body in the appointment of elders?The apostle Paul told Christian elders from Ephesus: "Pay attention to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the holy spirit has appointed you overseers, to shepherd the congregation of God, which he purchased with the blood of his own Son."—Acts 20:28.
Paul did not explain in detail how God’s spirit functioned in such appointments. However, we can gain insight from what occurred when the first-century governing body considered a question concerning circumcision. In summarizing their conclusion, they wrote: "For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you, except these necessary things." (Acts 15:28) How did God’s spirit, his impersonal active force, contribute to the binding decision reached at that time?
Acts chapter 15 shows that first Paul and Barnabas outlined the question. Then a discussion took place. The apostle Peter related what had led up to baptism of the uncircumcised Gentile Cornelius and his household. Peter explained that ‘God bore witness by giving them the holy spirit, just as he did to us also.’ (Acts 15:7, 8; 10:9-48) Next Paul and Barnabas ‘related the many signs and portents that God did through them among the nations.’ (Acts 15:12) Thus, by its operation on Peter, Cornelius, Paul, and Barnabas, the holy spirit indicated that Gentiles did not need to be circumcised.
Yet there were additional operations of the spirit involved in that decision reached by the governing body. We can assume that they had asked for the help of the spirit on their deliberations. Such help may have moved the disciple James to recall the prophecy at Amos 9:11, 12, and to see its application. That prophecy had, of course, been written under the inspiration of the holy spirit. (Acts 15:13-20) Furthermore, "the apostles and older men in Jerusalem" who made up the governing body were Christians who were anointed with holy spirit and who manifested its operation in their lives, such as by producing its fruits.—Acts 15:2; Romans 8:14-17; 1 Corinthians 7:40; Galatians 5:22, 23.
So without there being some audible directive from heaven on the circumcision question, those of the governing body could accurately say that "the holy spirit" had led to their decision.
It is similar with the appointment of Christian men to be elders, or overseers, in the congregations today. Periodically a group of elders (likely including a traveling overseer of the Society) meet to consider recommending brothers for appointment as overseers. Those in the group have themselves been appointed as elders and they manifest in their lives that they have the spirit. Their discussion is opened with prayer for the spirit’s guidance. Then, during the meeting, they analyze whether each brother being considered measures up to the qualifications for elders set out in the Bible, which have been recorded under the direction of holy spirit. (1 Timothy 3:2-7; Titus 1:5-9) They also consider whether the brother evidences in his manner of life that he is "full of spirit and wisdom." (Acts 6:3) If they agree that he is of that sort and meets the qualifications to a reasonable degree, their recommendation is forwarded to the spirit-designated Governing Body or its chosen representatives. Later the congregation may be informed that the brother has been appointed.
The only 'spirit' that's involved in appointing these turkeys, comes in the shape of a bottle and is 80 proof.
They claim that holy spirit makes the appointments. It was when I personally knew an adulterer being appointed as an elder that my faith first started to be shaken.
Watchtower 2002 March 15 p. 14 Christ Leads His Congregation
“Our Leader uses this Governing Body to appoint qualified men—whether spirit-anointed or not—as elders in the local congregations. In this regard, the holy spirit, which Jehovah has given Jesus authority to employ, plays a pivotal role. (Acts 2:32, 33) First of all, these overseers must meet the requirements set out in God’s Word, which was inspired by holy spirit. (1 Timothy 3:1-7; Titus 1:5-9; 2 Peter 1:20, 21) The recommendations and appointments are made after prayer and under the guidance of the holy spirit . Additionally, the individuals appointed give evidence of producing the fruitage of that spirit. …How reassuring to know that Jesus Christ provides leadership to his disciples today through the Governing Body, the holy spirit, and the angels !”
Watchtower 1958 1/15 p. 45 Overseers in Apocalyptic Times
In consideration of the spirit’s fruitage produced by the candidate and in harmony with the written requirements set out in the Holy Scriptures written by men under the operation of the holy spirit , the governing body acts, being itself moved by the holy spirit for which it prays to God that it may guide the governing body . So today as well as in Paul’s day it may be said that the holy spirit appoints overseers over the flock of God that he purchased “with the blood of his own Son.” (Acts 20:28, Schonfield ) If in course of time any overseer turns out bad, we must remember that even Judas Iscariot, whom Jesus himself selected to be an apostolic overseer, turned out bad,
You will know them from their works, they don't produce the works of those governed by the Holy Spirit.
I could really see the holy spirit in the Elder that came to my door last year to tell me if a women could not prove she was abused by her husband he would tell her to return to her husband. What a stupid thing to say to someone who wasn't even baptised. That was the straw that broke my back.
There have been many changes in how elders were appointed. This change happened about 1935.
Each congregation had until then, been run by members who had been voted in to the position of elder, by the other congregation members. They were now stripped of this title, and told that all congregations were to be run by company servants appointed by head office.
The Society had, in one move, taken away these men’s positions as elders chosen by each congregation, and at the same time the hope of heavenly life for nearly all the members. This position was now reserved for the directors. In view of the higher class they were now in, they would make all future decisions regarding congregation matters. This gave the Society total control.
