UPDATE! 'Local Needs' Part on Apostates!

by drew sagan 41 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  uninformed

  (Awake, 6-22-2000) Name-Calling

  Some people insult those who disagree with them by questioning character or motives instead of focusing on the facts. Name-calling slaps a negative, easy-to-remember label onto a person, a group, or an idea. The name-caller hopes that the label will stick. If people reject the person or the idea on the basis of the negative label instead of weighing the evidence for themselves, the name-caller’s strategy has worked.

  Soon as they call you an apostate, everyone is under obligation to DISMISS you.

  That's exactly what they did to me.

  Keep up the good work Drew.

  Brant
• 

  68storm

  Irealize it's the end of this thread and nobody will see this but I feel that it has to be said.

  Take it from someone that was never a jw (25 long years married to one).

  This CLUB is very controlling in every possible way!!. Think of the GESTAPO, KGB, ANIMAL FARM, 1984, etc., etc.....Get it!!!

  To an outsider it does not come close to appearing like a religion PERIOD!! It's identical to an Amway meeting.

  Sorry to be so rude but these threads always get me going.

  Respectfully,

  68storm
• 

  sass_my_frass

  You're a star, sir! And these are for your lovely wife...

  Keep it together!
• 

  AK - Jeff

  Good on you and the wife, Drew.

  I am sure the same kind of talks have been given in my absence too, they always do that. Ad Hominem attacks work well with followers. The very word 'apostate' strikes fear into those indoctrinated to accept the Watchtower's twisted meaning. And they are running scared, so they use the word at a drop of a hat nowadays. I recall in my early days in the 'Truth', that I only ever heard of one 'apostate' for years. Now it is common discussion I think.

  I find it amusing how easily these people accept that one that was thier close companion and friend for decades, has suddenly began to sleep with the Devil.

  In our case - I know that gossip and slander on a personal level has been used effectively to keep the salesforce from speaking to me. The car groups in service are a particularly effective place to slam and smear a former associate's name.

  I hope that this is the turning point for your wife - may God bless.

  Jeff
• 

  carla

  In re to asking questions, here's the line I always get-- 'that is a flat out lie that you can't ask questions, I ask questions all the time'. My jw fails to see that I you are not clear or do not accept the answers is where the problem lies. It is in not accepting the answers that gets you in trouble not the questions. He sees not accepting the elders answers as being weak or not submissive to the elders or fds, wait upon jah to correct, etc... Of course asking the 'wrong' kinds of questions will get you in trouble as well, if you even ask about the UN for example it would be obvious you have had some exposure to 'apostates' somewhere along the line.

  I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.
• 

  Honesty

  I am so happy for you and your wife.

  Within 2 weeks of the announcement that I had disassociated from the 'Christian' Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses, a local needs talk was given about not having anything to do with apostates.

  All this was brought on because the elders couldn't answer my questions about the UN/NGO, blood in Bulgaria and why was it wrong to worship Jesus.

  It is amazing that when the JW's first contact a person they are so adamant that the 'mark' should compare their denomination against the Bible. Of course, the 'mark' only sees what the WT sez the Bible says about birthdays, Christmas, Easter, etc.

  But... just as soon as the 'mark' joins the elite club and is baptised into the Watchtower Society ANY examination of what is being taught that results in unaswerable questions will put them in the seat of an apostate who must be weeded out at all costs and with utmost urgency.

  BTW, that local needs talk resulted in 3 other JW's leaving the Watchtower cult because they started researching the Watchtower.
• 

  mcsemike

  To 68storm: Since 1984 was mentioned, and I love this book, I thought I would quote one paragraph. A man (named Winston) who doubted the "Party's" (read WT) beliefs, had been caught and was undergoing some sort of deprogramming. A senior Party member was explaining to him why he, the rebel who asked questions, was wrong. He said:

  "You are here because you have failed in humility, in self-discipline. You would not make the act of submission which is the price of sanity. You preferred to be a lunatic, a minority of one. Only the disciplined mind can see reality, Winston. You believe that reality is something objective, external, existing in its own right. You also believe that the nature of reality is self-evident. When you delude yourself into thinking that you see something, you assume that everyone else sees the same thing as you. But I tell you, Winston, that reality is not external. Reality exists in the human mind, and nowhere else. Not in the individual mind, which can make mistakes, and in any case soon perishes: only in the mind of the Party, which is collective and immortal. Whatever the Party holds to be the truth, is truth. It is impossible to see reality without looking through the eyes of the Party. That is the fact that you have got to relearn, Winston. It needs an act of self-destruction, an effort of the will. You must humble yourself before you can become sane."

  I think that says it all. Thank you. (Cut and paste wouldn't work. Can someone tell me what I did wrong? Many thanks.)
• 

  uninformed

  In re to asking questions, here's the line I always get-- 'that is a flat out lie that you can't ask questions, I ask questions all the time'. My jw fails to see that I you are not clear or do not accept the answers is where the problem lies. It is in not accepting the answers that gets you in trouble not the questions. He sees not accepting the elders answers as being weak or not submissive to the elders or fds, wait upon jah to correct, etc... Of course asking the 'wrong' kinds of questions will get you in trouble as well, if you even ask about the UN for example it would be obvious you have had some exposure to 'apostates' somewhere along the line.

  I'd rather have questions I can't answer than answers I can't question.

  Carla,

  Just want to thank you for that last comment! Sometimes just a few words means so much. Good job.

  Brant
• 

  NewYork44M

  This has to backfire big time.

  I remember one time at the meeting an elder started ranting about all the porno on the internet. Keep in mind that this was in the early days when these sites were not everywhere. I was a good christian that also used the internet for work and school. But at the time tt never occured to me that there might be these sites out there.

  So after hearing this brother foaming at the mouth I immediately went home and found all kinds of really neat web sites. Thank you Bro Miller!!
• 

  Finally-Free

  To an outsider it does not come close to appearing like a religion PERIOD!! It's identical to an Amway meeting.

  68Storm, You're not kidding! When I was a JW another JW couple talked me into going to an Amway meeting with them, and I was surprised at how similar it was to the JW meetings.

  Didn't I meet you at a Toronto apostofest in Nov. 2003???

  W