Most people would consider it very wacky to connect the pyramid of Gizah with the Bible. Russell's claim was that the pyramid, the 1.st wonder of the world, was a witness down the ages containing God's plan. The teachings and ideas on this seem to be so complex, that few people would spend / waste the time required to study these things. But on the other hand, I know the Bible contains many references to Egypt. The exodus is used as a motif in the NT, several Revelation concepts such as the second death concept steems from egyptian mythology etc. and its pretty common knowledge that the Bible uses Egypt as a symbol of the sinful world. Has anyone studied this or have some sources they can recommend? It's a topic I would like to look closer into some time.
The great pyramid
by OneLord 33 Replies latest watchtower bible
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james_woods
What is considered to be the age of the Pyramid? I think I once heard about 2000 Yrs BC?
If so, it is of interest that it is not mentioned in the OT...
After all, it manifestly does still exist - (unlike solomons temple, noahs ark, and the holy grail)...
James
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Terry
I think the Great Pyramid of Cheops finds its origin around 2530 b.c.e.
There seem to me to be four things which made the Great Pyramid of central importance to Charles Taze Russell.
1.Independant confirmation of religious doctrines is vanishingly rare.
2.Anything old and mysterious captivates the attention of the layman.
3.Persuasive diagrams appear to have a scientific and mathmatical resonance. It simulates rational thought.
4.The Jews were in ancient Egypt and were said to be slaves. The Pyramids were built by slaves. The tenuous bible connection provides a bridge for doctrine.
Every belief systems is built on a foundation of presuppositions which are never questioned.
The hidden presuppositions support the Conceptual structure of the PREMISE itself.
The four premises stated above are supported by the presuppositions:
1.Religion has actual merit in reality and is factual.
2.Knowledge was purer and greater in ancient times because man was "closer to perfection".
3.Specially chosen men have always had an inside channel to the mind of God and are endowed with the genius of making it apparent to the rest of us.
4.God exists, has a chosen people, has secrets, reveals them through his prophets and the prophets exist today.
The milieu and mindset of the era in which C.T.Russell lived was awash in religious speculative philosophy.
1.Millennial obsessions
2.Prophetic speculations
3.End Time anxiety as the new century ended.
4.The Protestant break with Catholicism created a new mindset that pitted the Magesterium of the Church against the Bible itself. Protestants proclaimed the doctrine of Sola Scriptura. This meant any wise and humble believer was just as likely to know the mind of God using scripture as any Bishop or Pope.
C.T. Russell became a combination of Pope with the Magesterium of the "faithful and discreet slave" empowerment and the talent for using Chronology, Pyramid diagrams and humbug analogy to prop up his END OF THE WORLD fantasies.
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Forscher
I find it strange that folks don't make the effort to place CTR in his times. He by no means originated Pyramidology, though he fell for it like many in his day. He didn't originate the dispensationalism, though he adopted it as well. Many of the teachings he promoted were also teachings of alternative faiths such as the Adventists, Christadelphians, Universalists, etc.. Dispensationalism originated with Evangelicals and is still embraced in some Evangelical circles.
What I see is that Russell is held to answer more for what Rutherford turned Russell's printing company into than anything else. All the vitriol seems to come from that. If one separates Russell from that he is not quite the monster many think. If one places Russell in his times, then his teachings aren't so strange after all.
Forscher -
MidwichCuckoo
I was told that Egyptians deliberately opposed God by shaving their heads!
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Terry
What I see is that Russell is held to answer more for what Rutherford turned Russell's printing company into than anything else. All the vitriol seems to come from that. If one separates Russell from that he is not quite the monster many think. If one places Russell in his times, then his teachings aren't so strange after all.
....and so you miss the point entirely!
Russell was the lynchpin of a group which was manipulated into a destructive false religion that ruins people's lives.
1.Russell used his personal fortune
2.Russell used his persuasive writings
3.Russell used his wife's interpretation of the "faithful and wise servant" doctrine to give him Magesterium
4.Russell made the focus of religion that of date-setting and Armageddon peddling.
Without Russell you have a feckless Rutherford with no launching pad.
Hold C.T.Russell (and all the other religious quacks of the era) morally responsible for what they created.
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Forscher
Terry: ....and so you miss the point entirely!
Forscher: Not really. You are holding Russell to account for other's sins and declclaring him to be a monster.
Terry: Russell was the lynchpin of a group which was manipulated into a destructive false religion that ruins people's lives.
Forscher: That is much like holding Jesus Christ responsible for the latter excesses of the Roman Cathoplic Church. What you miss is that although he founded a religious group he didn't promote the kind of destructive behavior which came to charachterize Jehovah's Witnesses. Far from it he comdemned such things. With the exception of the fifty "ecclesia's" who elected him as their "head pastor" during his lifetime the "ecclesias" were independant, unlike JW congregations. Despite certain things folks like to quote with glee from his writings, the Bible Students were organized nothying like Jehovah's witnesses. That you hold him responsible for what an ambitious and unprincipled lawyer did after he died is amazing. For your information, Russell didn't abide Rutherford's presense at his headquarters. At the time Russell died, Rutherford was living in California and working for a business, not the Watchtower. We have A.H. Macmillan to thank for Rutherford's being given the opportunity to make a hasty trip to New York and take control. Put the blame where it lies.
Terry: 1.Russell used his personal fortune
Forscher: Of course he used his personal fortune to promote his views. What is wrong with that? At least he did that instead of using religion to make a personal fortune like most do. I don't worship the man by any means, but I do give him credit for that. He put his money where his mouth was!
Terry: 2.Russell used his persuasive writings
Forscher: Once again I ask what is wrong with that? If he were promoting cultic behavior you might have a point. Balance his one little comment about being better oof reading his literature rather than studying the Bible alone against the bulk of his work and it is not as easy as you think to make that case. Sure, his ideas are a bit quircky from our modern perspective but they are not all that different from his times.
Terry: 3.Russell used his wife's interpretation of the "faithful and wise servant" doctrine to give him Magesterium
Forscher: You might want to rethink that comment. The record is that he never made that claim. Although some were making it toward the end of his life, it was Rutherford who pushed it after Russell's death for his own ends until he was secure enough in power that he didn't need it anymore.
Terry: 4.Russell made the focus of religion that of date-setting and Armageddon peddling.
Forscher: Just like every other Adventist. There is nothing intrinsically evil about doing that. He was mistaken like many before and since (ever heard of Hal Lindsey?). You're just beating a dead horse.
Terry: Without Russell you have a feckless Rutherford with no launching pad.
Forscher: That still doesn't make Russell an evil monster. Like I wrote earlier that is the same as holding Jesus responsible for the the witch hunts and the inquisitions of the Catholic Church. I know many try to, but it doesn't really work.
Terry: Hold C.T.Russell (and all the other religious quacks of the era) morally responsible for what they created.
Forscher: No. Learn from them. Satayana is famous for his saying that those who do not learn from the past are condemned to repeat it. Russell lived to see his predictions fail. We should learn from that failure and not fall for predictions concerning "the time and seasons which the Father has placed in his own jurisdictions" (Acts 1:7). That knowledge is not given us. We should be content with that. We should value our freedom as we can see from the example of Rutherford, Armstrong, and many others the folly of giving that freedom up. And we should encourage others to value that freedom as well, especially those who remain in bondage. Russell, Rutherford, Smith, etc. are dead. It is a waist of time to "hold them responsible". The living, those we CAN hold responsible. We can expose the evil of Ted Jaracz and his associates. That is the business we should be about. Believe me, that is a hell of a lot more productive.
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james_woods
Forscher - he (Russell) copied his theology off of the seventh day adventism crazies of the day. He was barking pyramid mad.
When the prophecy didn't come true in 1844, they rebuilt it for 1874. When that didn't happen, Russell cooked up (1913) 1914. That was supposed to be the end of the world, not an invisible presence. When that passed, and when he died, it got turned into 1918 or 1925, or something else. Yes, Rutherford was full of guilt, too. =
But, Russell started this mess.
He was a false prophet. Throw stones at memory of him.
Enough said.
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greendawn
Even if Russell got his ideas from other wayward theologists of his days that doesn't make him any less dangerous and heretical. He simply was not a serious mainstream religious leader and took on board a lot of satanic occultic ideas.
The idea of the second death is common sense rather than of Egyptian origin, humans will be given a second chance for eternal life under ideal conditions (without ignorance or coercion), and if they fail again that's the end of it. -
Forscher
James_woods: But, Russell started this mess.
Forscher: Considering you wrote just before that: "Forscher - he (Russell) copied his theology off of the seventh day adventism crazies of the day...When the prophecy didn't come true in 1844, they rebuilt it for 1874." , Your comment is kind of wierd.
;-)
Forscher