as a jw..did you ever have a REAL theological discussion with anyone?

by candidlynuts 23 Replies latest jw friends

Forscher

Really, my part of the country is mainly fully of fundies wwith a few Black Muslims and Mennonites thrown in for variety. How can one have any kind of deep discussion with that mix?
Inside the congregatin there was this one pompous elder who had a reputation for deeeeep deeeep thinking and discussion. But even he stayed on the "FDS is God's mouthpiece" track and I don't need to tell you how deep that really is. The closest I ever came to a really deep discussion was with an elderly Adventist lady. But even she was a little like looking in the mirror. So I guess my answer to that question is no.
Forscher
parakeet

Honesty, I must take exception to your portrayal of an average JW as a parrot. As a parakeet myself, I can tell you that my brethren, the parrot family, are extremely intelligent. Research with African grey parrots has shown that they can speak many words with genuine understanding of the meanings, not just in imitation. I think you'll agree that accomplishment is greater than most JWs can achieve. :-)
BTW, that is a beautiful photo of a scarlet macaw.
Honesty

Honesty, I must take exception to your portrayal of an average JW as a parrot. As a parakeet myself, I can tell you that my brethren, the parrot family, are extremely intelligent. Research with African grey parrots has shown that they can speak many words with genuine understanding of the meanings, not just in imitation. I think you'll agree that accomplishment is greater than most JWs can achieve. :-)

BTW, that is a beautiful photo of a scarlet macaw.

I profusely apologise, parakeet.
It was not my intention to demean your species by stereotyping.
They are definitely a lot smarter than any current loyal JW I have encountered.
ronin1

Yes.
With my mom, late father, brothers and sisters.
Our discussions were great.
Ronin1
parakeet

Honesty:
***I profusely apologise, parakeet.
It was not my intention to demean your species by stereotyping.***

I accept your apology, Honesty. I'm glad I didn't have to go into parakeet-attack mode to defend my species.

parakeet
"Death from Above!"
KW13

What is the favourite phrase? well i am not sure about that but i'll go back home and research it, and come back at another date.
This means they check with the society and 'update' on more nonsense, its encouraged by the Society so that witnesses dont get proven wrong, they are even discouraged from debate.
sass_my_frass

Not I; any time I found myself out of my depth or facing a rational concept that I couldn't answer, I'd excuse myself with the old 'I'll research that and come back', and then not. It was also good to whine about the person's dress sense or something to help separate their message from the kinds of people I could expect to hear it from. I was a judgmental snobbish pain in the rear.
SallySue

Are you kidding? When I was a JW pioneer I thought I was smarter than anyone I would meet at the door and since I had moved "where the need was great" I thought I was more spiritual than any other JW in my congregation.
WOW was I shocked when I learned the "real" truth.
clovis

I recently had a discussion with my JW sister who I know has her share of doubts. She can't get past the blind faith reasoning. She and her Elder husband have been crapped on so many time by the goody two shoes type JW's but always say it's people not Jehovah who are imperfect. They really don't want to dicuss anything because it brings up too many questions they can't answer.
I don't push it as they are pretty laid back. Both my older sister and I are DF'd and they still talk with us and we stay at each others places when in town. They are 2 of the best people there are but won't question a thing about the org. It frustrates me to no end but I just try to be calm and reason with them.
Jerry1

This is an issue that concerns a not ever witness like me. My daughter joined up several years ago and is still the only witness in our family.
I have read extensively and met many ex-jw so i feel pretty informed. The one thing all ex's have told me is that they were never challenged
by a christain at the door. Over the last several years i have tried to remedy that around where i live and have been asked to speak in several
churchs as lots of folks know us and our situation. At first i was giving too much info and people would could not keep listening, heck i can't
juice up the WT religion either. I have now been asked to speak to a group and have decided to stick with history and just quickly go through
the religion part. I have 2 questions for y'all. First if i can convey the idea in the handout below so that they understand and can ask common sense questions is that the best approach for a church person. Second if the subject does get to religion ( salvation) would it not be enough
to ask the witness how the annoined are saved and then press them that i am also saved ( church person ) exactly like that? This way their
religion and history is addressed. Remember this is for church people who have no clue about anything JW. comments please.....tks jerry
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45:
Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? 46: Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 47: Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. Matthew 24:45-47 KJV
45 "Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. 47 Truly I say to you, He will appoint him over all his belongings. Matthew 24:45-47 JW version
They say this servant/slave represents the same people in REV 7:4 - 8 ( 144,000 ). The Witness that comes to your door will be in the Great Multitude in verses 9 - 17. If we paraphrase their version we get ( on arriving, He will appoint ) so the 2 things are linked together. They say Jesus arrived ( in Heaven ) in 1914 then appointed them in 1918. However, originally they believed the "return of Christ" was in 1874 and kept that position up until the 1940s.
21 In 1918, when Jesus Christ inspected those claiming to be his slaves, he found an international group of Christians publishing Bible truths for use both inside the congregation and outside in the preaching work. In 1919 it truly turned out to be as Christ had foretold: "Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. Truly I say to you, He will appoint him over all his belongings." (Matthew 24:46, 47) These true Christians entered into the joy of their Master. Having shown themselves "faithful over a few things," they were appointed by the Master to be "over many things." (Matthew 25:21) The faithful slave and its Governing Body were in place, ready for a widened assignment.
This is cut and paste from the Watchtower magazine of 3/15 1990 Page 14.
55 In the year 1943 the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society published the book "The Truth Shall Make You Free." In its chapter 11, entitled "The Count of Time," it did away with the insertion of 100 years into the period of the Judges and went according to the oldest and most authentic reading of Acts 13:20, and accepted the spelled-out numbers of the Hebrew Scriptures. This moved forward the end of six thousand years of man’s existence into the decade of the 1970’s. Naturally this did away with the year 1874 C.E. as the date of return of the Lord Jesus Christ and the beginning of his invisible presence or parousia.
This is a cut and paste from a Jehovah's Witness book entitled "God's Kingdom of a Thousand Years has Appoached"
copyright 1973 page 209. This 1973 book quotes another of their books from 1943. The only reason this has any significance is the reference to the date 1874. This is a rare admission and the witness at your door probably dosen't even know about it and may deny it. So when did Jesus "return" and their appointment happen? How can such a momumental event like the return of Christ ( not to mention their appointment as ruler ) be in any doubt?? By the way the word "parousia" is just Greek for presence/arriving/cometh in Matt 25:46.
Basic questions.....If I were to join your group would I have to believe Jesus is in Heaven ? Is Heaven a long way off ? Can you see into Heaven ? What are they doing in Heaven today right now? Can your leaders see into Heaven? How did they know they were approved or appointed? When was the Slave ( your leaders ) appointed to feed you with Watchtower magazines,1874, 1918 or when? Who knew of the appointment first? Where was he/she/they? How was it made known, booming voice, still small voice, donkey talking, angel? Warm fuzzy feeling? Was someone ( who when where) reading Matthew 24 and just get a feeling that he was now in charge? The second coming of Jesus, the greatest most monumental event we can imagine, surely your leaders know all these basic details. Surely it was big news in the Watchtower of the day. 1874, 1914, 1918 or when ( also who, where how )??
Remember the important point is Jesus' approval. We all make mistakes but Jesus does not. If Jesus approved them, OK fine, but we just need some more information.
When the Bible says that people worshipped Jesus, that is not the important point, because people will make mistakes and worship in error, see Exodus 32:4 Acts 14:11 or Revelation 19:10. What is important is that Jesus approved of people worshipping Him. This is not a small point. We are not so interested in what the Watchtower leaders were doing at any given time in history. They made mistakes and so do we, but they have made an extraordinary claim concerning Jesus, that they received his approval and appointment to be over His sheep.
We would need some more information. Can they research it for us ?

as a jw..did you ever have a REAL theological discussion with anyone?

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