What a Gorilla and some JW children have in common. (Stilla et al)

by LDH 12 Replies latest jw friends

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  LDH

  I've been looking forward to having the time to post this since Stilla made her big thread about getting the boot at 22.

  I'm a huge fan of National Geographic and Jane Goodall, the "Gorillas in the Mist" lady. There was a special about 15 years ago that I remember well, it aired soon after the birth of my daughter.

  She basically lived with this whole bunch of gorillas and observed their social behavior.

  There was this one gorilla family, a mother with a 'teenage' daughter and a 'toddler' son. The daughter was well-adjusted. The son was a spoiled brat. He was pulling on his mother every minute of the day. He was demanding of all her attention and time.

  The mother gorilla indulged his temper tantrums. Where other mother gorillas began the process of 'pushing' their children away to be on their own, she clung closer to him. She was afraid of everything. Extremely dysfunctional. This unnatural process of her 'looking after' a fully grown male gorilla as though he were a newborn literally wore her out. She died a very untimely death. Not a month later, her 'healthy son' died, too.

  The narrator did such a good job of explaining the dynamics of why it's important for a spirit of independence to be fostered in a child gorilla, and how she did him a disservice by allowing him to cling on to her. She should have pushed him away. While it's natural for children to want to cling to their parents, the narrator showed that for the health of the gorilla child, he or she must be pushed to independence.

  I beleive most JW parents have that same flaw. Where they shoud push their children to excel, instead they warn of failure. Where they should encourage their children to grow wings and fly, instead they sew their wings to the nest and volunteer to bring food back. Where most parents see possibilities, and allow their children to believe they can do anything they set their mind to, JW parents inherently believe that their children are underachievers. Where other parents rejoice at the opportunity to provide a world of wonderment, to the JWs their children are a burden and exist to serve the parent's interest and needs.

  I learned a lot about how NOT TO PARENT from that gorilla.

  Lisa

  No Monkey's Uncle Class
• 

  SixofNine

  
  Hey Lisa, Jane has alot of wisdom to share. I think you'd like her book "A Reason For Hope".

  I think I had some people on the forum believing she was my mom at one point:

  

  
• 

  ringo5

  What a lot of wisdom can be gleaned from observing nature and comparing ourselves with it...
  
  

  
  
  *** w61 12/15 p. 767 Questions from Readers ***
  
  • How can girls guard against temptation in this sex-crazy world?
  
  When a girl reaches the age of puberty or physical maturity, her body has developed in the matter of sex more than in the mind. Young folks like to be together, first in groups, later in twos. If they have not been instructed by their parents in regard to the matter of sex, a boy and a girl are likely to become too familiar and to engage in what is popularly called petting or necking. They may practice this for a time and see no bad results. However, the time will come when there will be great danger in such actions. Why? In answer to this question, we can learn about nature and sex from the bovine family of mammals, both wild and tame.
  
  Large herds of cattle, both male and female, wander over the plains feeding. Ordinarily the male or bull would not think of approaching the female or cow for sex purposes. If he did approach he would not receive a hearty welcome, but, rather, he might be gored by the cow’s horns. There is no petting or sex relations between bull and cow permitted, because the female is not in physical condition to breed. The bull seems to understand this and keeps in his own place. However, when the female of the species is in condition to breed, she makes the matter known. If there is no male in the herd, she will go elsewhere looking for one and she is unsettled until she finds one and then is bred by him. Now she is contented, and the end result is a calf. In this connection it is interesting to note that the male animal has no season at which he is not willing to engage in the breeding act.
  
  If we humans would take a lesson from these creatures, we would learn something of importance in matters of sex, as to its purpose and the results of its operation.
  
  As with a cow, when a young girl who has reached her puberty is in physical condition to conceive and become pregnant, her sex emotions are greatly aroused. If she has association with a boy, she is inclined to think that it is the sweetness of the “boy friend” that causes this delightful and new feeling, and so she becomes infatuated with him. If the boy friend should become sexually aroused and lets her know it and then she yields her body to the advances of the amorous boy friend, she is likely to become pregnant as a result of just one sex experience of this kind.
  
  Your in good company...
• 

  LDH

  What a lot of wisdom can be gleaned from observing nature and comparing ourselves with it...

  We *ARE* nature, moron! If you can't figure out the difference between an article written by the WT and Jane Goodall's DECADES of field research, I recommend you not have any children of your own.

  Six I have not heard of that book but will look into it. I'm a big fan of the Leakey's too. That picture is remarkable except for the fact that you look like you're both at an assembly, LOL!

  Lisa
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  ringo5

  You obviously missed the point (insert Face with upward looking eyes here), it was not Jane Goodall who associated JW parents with gorillas, it was you, (insert insult here as substitute for logical argument).
• 

  LDH

  it was not Jane Goodall who associated JW parents with gorillas, it was you, (insert insult here as substitute for logical argument).

  I didn't realize I don't have the 'sensibilities' to make a comparison between an over-protective primate and a lot of over-protective, scared of life, JW parents. When Stilla posted, there was fear in her heart. Her parents have disabled her, whether or not that was their goal.

  (Hence the term "SOME" but as there's a lot of thread-title misreading going on tonight, I imagine you didn't see that.)

  MANY right-wing, ultra-conservative Christians/ Muslims feel they are doing their children a favor by sheltering them from the 'world'--because the end will be here any minute now! The "children" (I use this term loosely) are then surprised when they are ill-prepared to deal with life after a childhood of paranoia and warnings about the Bogeyman around every corner.

  It is not natural for a child to be molly-coddled to the point of disabling that child, and that is obvious even in watching a documentary about GORILLAS.

  That disillusioned adult will do one of two things:

  1. REBEL and fight for precious freedom

  2. SUBMIT and allow their will to be bent.

  I rebelled as did many others who would not allow their spirit to be crushed. If you are a lurker or an adolescent, fight for your freedom. It's worth it.

  Lisa

  Ode to independence Class
• 

  ringo5

  I beleive most JW parents have that same flaw.

  
  
  
  
  
  Don't you see a pattern here?
• 

  LDH

  Don't you see a pattern here?

  Pattern being, MANY MANY MANY parents who are drawn to paranoid, fundie, conservative religions are as dysfunctional as that mother gorilla. Afraid of every shadow. Convinced they can protect their child from every eventuality. Willing to forsake the natural order because they're convinced they're something special.

  Oh yes, I see a pattern. It's just too bad I'm familiar with it on a first-hand basis due to JW upbringing. However, be clear that it is not just the domain of the JW parent which is why I refer to "SOME" JW children.

  I reject that pattern of beating a child's will into submission through the use of fear.

  Period.

  Make your point, or *poof* be gone.

  Lisa
• 

  stillAwitness

  I remember reading a book about that woman years ago. I also remember you pointing out that I have "codependancy issues" LDH in my thread about me having to move out (by the way, I told my brother and he started laughing insisting that "mom is just bluffing" which apparently she is cause I'm still home although my folks hardly ever say more than 2 words to me-apparently I'm not worthy of their attention anymore)

  Anyways, I thought: 'well of course! I do have a codependency problem!' My parents have never expected me to ever be capable of taking care of myself. I've never had to pay any bill higher than a cell phone bill and I've never been even out of town for the weekend by myself. No wonder I'm so terrified of the real world. The simple thought of paying my own bills and taking care of myself seems not only foreign but impossible to me.

  But its not just me. Its a lot of girls in the dub world this way and some are worse off than me. I know one who says the only way she will ever be able to be independant and free from her parents is if she gets married. That makes me sad to think that a girl who is in her 20's-the time when we're supposed to be figuring out ourselves, finally getting in tune with our bodies, a time when the world is ours to discover is feeling pressure to already settle down and be married! Its just not right!!

  Without this site I think I'd be completely lost. Its been a real help. People like you LDH who have always been able to give me that slap in the face that I need: someone who actually sees that I'm 22 not and not 12 and says: "Look you are an adult and you can do this is helping me along.

  I don't know when I'll actually move out. I know it will be some time this year. But if all else fails: anyone have an extra room? I do dishes!
• 

  ringo5

  sigh,
  
  The point is, the making of sweeping generalizations is better for entertainment value than educational value.
  
  

  (Hence the term "SOME" but as there's a lot of thread-title misreading going on tonight, I imagine you didn't see that.)

  
  what you actually wrote

  I beleive most JW parents have that same flaw.

  
  
  
  

  Make your point, or *poof* be gone.
  
  Lisa

  
  
  
  testy, testy, it's like you've been gang-raped or something... ;) http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/115221/1.ashx