Perfect, Nearly Perfect, and Mostly Perfect....Religion

by jgnat 39 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  jgnat

  Thanks for everyone who contributed to this thread. I agree with many of the points made here, and I’ve enjoyed the summaries. Anyone who claims to have the whole truth needs to keep his mirror gleaming, and check often.

  I wonder why this is a contentious issue between you and hubby? You regularly, (even slavishly_LOL) complain about scripture and the doctrines developed from it.....by your own church's mission statement! How are you yourself any different than a JW who questions and belittles Christian doctrine?

  S***ing one: WHERE have I complained about scripture?

  S***ing one: WHERE have I belittled Christian doctrine? I’ve belittled YOU, but that’s mostly for doing such a poor job of representing my faith.

  On the other hand, I do think it is my Christian duty to regularly examine my foundation, to be sure of what is true. To take a good look in the mirror, so to speak.

  By way of illustration there’s been several threads about the “Ugly American” on the board recently. Some tourists, out of ignorance, don’t represent their nation as well as we would like. Why are they so unaware? Is it because, believing their nation to be the best, they didn’t bother to learn and observe in the country they were visiting? As painful as it might be to admit, we also have the “Ugly Christian”. T hey blithely bumble in to social situations, assuming that most of the people they are speaking to are condemned to hell. Unless the humble listeners accept their message, of course. This is highly offensive to most people. Does that mean that all Christians and all Americans are ugly, bumbling, arrogant, and ignorant? OF COURSE NOT.
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  serendipity

  Welcome Pallemar!
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  jgnat

  Welcome, also, adonais.

  If I know there is a bomb in a building and I go into said building, am I condemning for saying something to those in the building or am I trying to save them from death?

  I'd like to clarify this a bit. Are we saying along with the knowledge of truth, is the knowledge of death? That is, it's an either-or proposition? So, which building has the bomb; the Watchtower Society or Christendom's Churches? From your point of view.
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  Shining One

  >S***ing one: WHERE have I complained about scripture?
  
  Then you have now changed your mind and believe that all scripture is inspired?
  
  >S***ing one: WHERE have I belittled Christian doctrine?
  
  Let's try evangelism and in particular deathbed evangelism; the headship principle; the fact that scripture is divinely inspired and is the foundation for our morals and beliefs; the fact that Jesus is THE ONLY WAY to heaven; the very statements attributed to Jesus in the New Testament......then you will not support absolute truth derived from Biblical mandates. You set yourself up as a judge of scripture when you have no apparent qualifications to do so.
  Rex
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  Shining One

  >On the other hand, I do think it is my Christian duty to regularly examine my foundation, to be sure of what is true. To take a good look in the mirror, so to speak.
  
  The mirror is God's word, just as it says in James. You question God's word and thereby set yourself up as your own god. You have already compromised when you accept the worldview of those who are in opposition to the gospel message. What you are supposed to examine is your view in light of scripture, not scripture in light of the world's guidelines.
  
  >By way of illustration there’s been several threads about the “Ugly American” on the board recently. Some tourists, out of ignorance, don’t represent their nation as well as we would like. Why are they so unaware? Is it because, believing their nation to be the best, they didn’t bother to learn and observe in the country they were visiting? As painful as it might be to admit, we also have the “Ugly Christian”. They blithely bumble in to social situations, assuming that most of the people they are speaking to are condemned to hell. Unless the humble listeners accept their message, of course. This is highly offensive to most people. Does that mean that all Christians and all Americans are ugly, bumbling, arrogant, and ignorant? OF COURSE NOT.
  
  It does mean that a lot of alleged Christians compromise the very gospel in order to be popular with the present worldview. The gospel message is an offence because it confronts people with their own sin and pride. They are offended at the idea that a Jewish mystic from 2000 years ago bled and died, then rose again. Proclaiming Himself as the one true way to God. Scripture is very clear and when you hide the message to make it more 'tolerant' or 'agreeable' you rob the message of it's saving power. Even in your explanation you seek to poison the well and use a strawman by describing people who share the gospel as 'bumbling, ugly and arrogant.' What we have here is both fundamentalist bashing and America bashing by those who consider themselves to be superior; the elitists snobs.
  Rex
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  LittleToe

  Rex:

  You set yourself up as a judge of scripture when you have no apparent qualifications to do so.

  Mr.Pot, meet Mrs. Kettle. Whenever people state their beliefs/interpretations as the only right way they are setting themselves up as judge. What I really want to know, even if you reply to nothing else, is how your qualifications are superior to hers?

  The mirror is God's word, just as it says in James.

  On the contrary, aren't we judged by the "Word"? (Rom.14:10-13; Heb.4:12, 13) There's surely a mile of difference between Him and a dusty tome?
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  Caedes

  >S***ing one: WHERE have I complained about scripture?
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  Rex

  Sinning one, having a different understanding of the scriptures is not the same as complaining about them, I think the scriptures are inconsistant and contradictory, that is complaining. The fact that Jgnat has a different understanding of scriptures to your judgemental, blinkered and niave understanding is not complaining.

  The same argument stands for your other point, You are setting yourself up in judgement on other peoples faith when you have no qualifications to do so.
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  greendawn

  True if a religion claims to be the only true Christian religion and forcefully demands from its members to be treated as such it needs to exhibit the kind of behaviour that matches their claim, and if they don't they deserve to be severely castigated.
  
  The WTS should be charitable to the Nth degree given its claims of top moral superiority (uniquely chosen by God) yet the idea of being charitable is totally alien to their mind, such things show us their real face.
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  jgnat

  I don't want to muddy my point with Sh***ing One's side-issue. I'll start a new thread for that. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/115459/1.ashx
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  kid-A

  How depressing to see the "shining ass" succeed in hijacking what otherwise would have been an interesting discussion. Rex, please re-insert your head into your colon and allow the thread to proceed with the original question.

  As for the original theme, I agree that this argument is absurd precisely when a JW apologist attempts to apply it to the borg. Most mainstream religions dont claim absolute infallibility, yet the WTS has claimed to be jehoobies personal mouthpiece since 1879. Nowhere in the bible is there an indication that holy "truth" would be revealed in a piecemeal fashion over time, a la "increasing light". This is precisely why the JW apologists constantly harp on about how we apostates are obsessed with old JW literature and predictions, any reminder of the repeated false prophecies of the WTS simply amplifies their subconscious fears about the illusory version of "truth" that the JWs try to pass off as inspired by Jehoobie.