by carla 17 Replies latest jw friends
It seems they can't research any of the scandals or misquotes, etc... not only because you may have to use apostate books or sites or even non apostate info but because the mere idea came from apostates. How else you would you even think to look into the UN, misquotes or any other of the numerous problems?
No need to confuse yourself with the truth.
still banging head against wall,
carla
Exactly! That is why, despite all the things that I have learned lately about the 'true' history of the WTS, I have refrained from telling anyone in the [B]org what I personally know.
The fact is that no one ever really accepts something until they are personally ready to hear or read it. If I attempt to 'criticize' the [B]org, then I am the one who comes under scrutiny by the local brothers or my family, and not the WTS.
When they are ready to hear it, then they will come here, but not before.
Dave
When I went to church last Sunday, the Pastor looked mildly shocked when Scott told him I was an ex-Witness. We started talking and he told me that he had tried talking to a Mormon about a year ago and tried giving him a book written by an ex-Mormon. The guy "looked horrified" and refused to read it. The pastor couldn't figure out why, so I filled him in.
The Witnesses are programmed to reject anything that shows the religion in a negative light. Even when the facts are there in black and white. That's why you're not allowed to research anything about the United Nations, or read any "apostate" literature. They don't give a damn about your "spirituality", they only care that you'd be able to see the truth about The Truth and they'd lose their control over you.
And that is their biggest fear.
In their case, it is through fear of censure that the meme's survival is ensured. Once that is no longer a fear for a host, the still infected host is identified by the ganglion as a threat and is exorcised from the ganglion.
Keep banging that head, carla, but make sure you use something very soft to bang it against.
They have insulated themselves with layer after layer of escape hatches and hidden weapons caches that can be opened and used at any time. I have identified that as one of my chief difficulties to overcome, my brain is accustomed to this style of thought and it is a style of thought from which I want to break free. I am trying to notice when it is happening, but I still have trouble with it. The meds seem to help some with my ability to sense when that is happening, even though that is not what they are designed to address.
Even after someone leaves it takes a while for the damage to heal. It is actual damage, the ability to process information rationally has been somewhat crippled by long-term immersion into that kind of thinking. It doesn't mean that someone thus stunted is stupid, any more than someone who has no legs is just lazy if they don't walk. I have a real impediment thrown into my life that I have to find a way to overcome. At least I recognize it now, that is progress...big progress.
I am literally retarded in my development as a productive adult, by this religion and by some other things I've been through. But that doesn't mean I can't battle through and achieve the same potential I could have had I not been damaged. It may take longer, but I am determined to learn to walk on my hands if I have to—I will eventually carry my own weight. I am retarded, but I'm not stupid. I am ignorant of a lot of things, but I am learning quickly. Many here on this forum have been incredibly helpful in this regard.
JWs can't research the UN because they are retarded. Literally. It has real consequences in their life, the more fortunate among them are not intelligent enough to recognize the impacts. For the rest, often they are too ignorant to recognize the impacts (I was). It is a genuine shock to the system to find out how thoroughly messed up your brain is.
If it helps, carla, just imagine that he is still in denial about the fact that he has no legs to stand on.
Respecfully,
AuldSoul
The Witnesses are programmed to reject anything that shows the religion in a negative light. Even when the facts are there in black and white. That's why you're not allowed to research anything about the United Nations, or read any "apostate" literature.
Ask yourself this simple question:
What makes a person a hypocrite?
If you have a double standard you expect people to abide by a rule you refuse to observe yourself.
Jehovah's Witnesses are hypocrites.
Why?
1. They expect householders to read JW literature and be open-minded to another point of view.
2.JW's refuse to read other people's writings and cannot tolerate another point of view.
This is intellectual dishonesty. This is indoctrination. This is a cult mentality.
JW's praise the Boreans because they tested the things they were taught to see if they were really so.
However, JW's test nothing. They are required to accept what they are given without raising questions. To raise questions is to be marked as a troublemaker.
Why the double standard?
Answer: CONTROL.
There is no outlet for curiousity among the Kingdom Halls. There is no time set aside to air differences, ask questions or straighten out doctrinal ambiguity.
Why?
Truth is only truth when it can be tested against a standard of reality!
By taking the test of truth off the table the FDS removes the one and only method of verifying that what they teach conforms to reality.
What the FDS are really all about is being in control of the flow of information. They cannot tolerate one shaft of light to expose their tight-fisted control over the minds of the rank and file.
Truth can stand the test of research; a lie cannot.
AuldSoul is right again.
I know what you said is right, it is so frustrating that he can say one thing and the very next say another! One minute it's yes, ok, I can look into this or that, the next is 'can't do, the idea came from apostates'. I think the most frustrating thing is he doesn't even realize he is doing this and has no memory of saying yes in the first place even if it is only a time span of five minutes or so! What this org does to a human brain is criminal.
here's a little excerpt from discussions a wit-"friend" and i have been having.
setting the stage: i have told her that i've been assailed by monumental doubt and questions. she has agreed (because she is of the "pioneer slave class") to help me dispel these doubts. com'on isn't that sweet of her?
okay, so one issue i pointed out was:
"how can the light be getting brighter when there is a pattern of going back and forth over viewpoints and decisions (i.e. organ transplants)? how can there be room for error if the perfect holy spirit is propelling this organization forward?"
her reply?
"As for the Light getting brighter. I can certainly say that it is. These are a few examples. Back in the day Jehovah’s Witnesses celebrated Christmas, not realizing the ties it has with Babylonish false teachings. Smoking was banned in the 70’s because of the understanding of defilement of the flesh (2 Cor. 7:1). There used to be only one elder in every congregation, now there is a body of elders that can help each other. These are but a few."
ooooooohhhhhh! of course. well, these were apocalyptic turns in the history of the borg. let's just not mention things of greater import like the "new" understanding of this GENERATION?!??!?!
calliopé
I know what you said is right, it is so frustrating that he can say one thing and the very next say another! One minute it's yes, ok, I can look into this or that, the next is 'can't do, the idea came from apostates'.
Here is a simple way around this thinking.
1.Ask the JW if the definition of TRUTH is: that which fully and completely matches reality
or,
2.Is TRUTH simply what an authority figure tell you is true?
In other words, is there a way a person today can act which honestly allows THE TRUTH to be seen as matching/not matching reality?
Think about telling them this:
Jesus was a Jew. Who did he debate with about TRUTH in his religion?
Answer: members of his own religion!
Think about it: Jesus avoided discussing doctrine with non-Jews!
Did this make him a Jewish APOSTATE just because he debated the meaning of scriptures?
No!
Why not?
Because doctrines, beliefs, rituals and traditions can make the word of God invalid if the meaning is lost.
Jesus wanted clarity of understanding and not mere observance of Authority.
The JEWISH RELIGION had become nothing more than empty ritual observances handed down by AUTHORITY.
Jesus set the example which Christians say they are supposed to follow:
ASK THE QUESTION OF YOUR OWN RELIGIOUS AUTHORITIES: IS WHAT YOU ARE TELLING US really TRUE?
There would be no Christianity had Jesus simply accepted everything handed to him by Rabbinical teachers.
We cannot call ourselves Christian if we do not engage in the same kind of discussion with authority in our own religion which Jesus did.
Why?
Because those in Authority (Faithful and Discreet Slave) are given more by Jehovah and more is demanded of them in return.
Who is the Unfaithful Slave? The one who beats the servants and treats them badly.
How? By making them do things simply because they are TOLD TO DO THEM.
That is why the question is asked?
"Who then IS the faithful and discreet slave?"
Thanks Terry, I think I tried that tact way back when, but usually bring up the Bereans lately. Would a jw think that this is Jesus and His being able to question/debate is far different than our being able to? After all the average r & f seems to have pretty dismal view of themselves (in my opinion) re the NT and it's message being applied to themselves. Yet they will pull a few scripts here and there to make some strange point, out of context. How can they apply any of the NT yet say it is really only for the annointed and still apply certain things to themselves?
They are mind conditioned to a great degree so they can't see things as easily as we can do, even the obvious things. They have intense inner resistance to anything that antagonises the borg, its dogmas and style of rule.
But if the inspiration comes then it does and their eyes get opened. That's why so many leave.
