TRUE CHRISTIANS must imitate JESUS the "apostate"

by Terry 23 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Terry

  A Simple Premise for your consideration
  

  Is a Christian required to be a footstep follower of Jesus?
  

  Yes.

  Are true Christians required to imitate Jesus' behavior and state of mind as closely as humanly possible?

  Yes.

  Was Jesus a person who quietly followed the authorities in his religion of Judaism, or; did Jesus engage in discussion debate and controversy with them?

  Jesus was engaged in active debate with those Authorities whom Jehovah had placed in their positions as teachers, leaders and administrators of His word and His law.

  Why would it be any different for Christians today?

  In Early Christianity the strongest and most notable feature of faith was seen in the following behavior.

  1.Jesus constantly argued, questioned and debated with Authorities of his own religion'

  2.Jesus constantly argued, questioned and debated his own disciples and apostles.

  3.Jesus was more interested in "why" than "what". Religious authority was more interested in conformity to their power and position.

  4.The early feature of Christianity was the arguments and debates over who and what Jesus was as well as what true teaching was.

  A. Jews under law vs. Christians freed from law and under the authority of a spirit-led conscience.

  B.Christian vs Christian over whether Gentiles should be included.

  C.Christian vs Christian over circumcision and dietary observances

  Constantine's era of Roman Empire as Christian was an endless series of debates, arguments and tussles over what true doctrine was down to the smallest defintions of words.

  The Authority of the early Church was never sealed. The debate often flip-flopped as one argument prevailed for a time over other arguments. Early bishops, elders and deacons were in favor and then out vis a vis the Authority.

  CHRISTIANITY has never been anything less than a constant state of flux because of the testing of authority as to the truth of their pronouncements.

  From the time of Jesus onward it cannot be demonstrated anybody was solely in charge of pronouncing Truth from a position of unassailable authority.

  What conclusions can we draw from these historical examples?

  There is no basis for assuming that there should be in our day and time ONE CENTRAL AUTHORITY who pronounces what TRUTH IS which is free from being questioned, debated and called to demonstrate the veracity of their official stance on doctrine.

  IF JESUS COULD QUESTION and DEBATE with the authorities set in place by JEHOVAH; why shouldn't a follower of Jesus imitate his behavior and attitude today?

  THE ACCUSATION OF APOSTACY cannot be an authentic means of freeing a religious authority from being called to account for their ERRORS of doctrine by members of the same religion.
• 

  Pistoff

  I could not agree more.

  In the process of trying to become a better witness, I studied old WT and Awakes; this made the already blossoming cognitive dissonance more intense.

  I then just read the gospels, Acts, and Romans over and over. That made it harder yet to think like a witness.

  I realized, as you have noted, that Jesus was an iconoclast, a rebel, and was constantly spearing the existing religious authorities because of their hypocrisy.

  Jesus gathered grain and healed on the sabbath, refused to condemn sinners, confronted the temple money changers, associated with sinners and talked with foreigners and women.

  When I mentioned this to my wife, all I got was a dirty look.

  NO matter what a person thinks of Jesus, his teaching and life story are an encouragement to QUESTION AUTHORITY and not rely on or defer to religious authority in human form.
• 

  Terry

  NO matter what a person thinks of Jesus, his teaching and life story are an encouragement to QUESTION AUTHORITY and not rely on or defer to religious authority in human form.

  The very least the FDS could do is allow a Loyal Opposition to question them and print the dialogue in the Watchtower and settle disputes once for all time.

  But, they cannot.

  Why?

  They made a decision somewhere along the road to abandon reality. Along with abandonment of reality came forsaking what is honest.

  The Watchtower Society is run by intellectual criminals.
• 

  Satanus

  Jesus was apostate to authorities placed by yhwh and to the ot. Here was yhwh's command concerning those who disobeyed: "As for anyone who presumes to disobey the priest appointed to minister there to the Lord your God, or the judge, that person shall die. So you shall purge the evil from Israel." Deuteronomy 17:12

  Here are a few of the laws Jesus broke,

  - Jesus repudiated the laws of kosher food (Mark 7:18-19). [Compare this to Daniel's strict adherence to kosher food, in Daniel chapter 1.] In Mark he declares all food clean, thus going counter to the law of kosher in which there is a list of forbidden foods (Lev. 11 and Deut. 14).

  - He repudiated the laws of honoring one's parents, and called on
  his followers to hate their parents; he also dishonored his own mother (Matthew 10:34-36; Matthew 12:46-50; Luke 14:26). John 2:4. Upon being informed by his mother that there is no more wine, Jesus insults her with the insolent and disrespectful reply, "Woman, what have I to do with thee?"

  - He violated the Sabbath by picking grain, and incited his disciples to
  do the same (Matthew 12:1-8; Mark 2:23-26).

  - He again violated the Sabbath by healing a man's arm, which was
  not a matter of saving a life, and he openly defied the rabbis in his total repudiation of the Sabbath (Matthew 12:9-13; Mark 3:1-5).[Compare this to G-d's view of violating the Sabbath, in Numbers 15:32-36, Nehemiah 10:30-32, and dozens of other places throughout the Bible.]

  - Jesus brazenly defied and disobeyed the rabbis of the Sanhedrin,
  repudiating their authority (This is in many places in the New Testament, but look especially at Matthew 23:13-39, John 8:44-45). For this the torah said he should die Deuteronomy 17:12 As for anyone who presumes to disobey the priest appointed to minister there to the Lord your God, or the judge, that person shall die. So you shall purge the evil from Israel.
  in Matthew 23:17 and 19 he refers to the Pharisees as fools

  Law Courts
  8 If cases come before your courts that are too difficult for you to judge-whether bloodshed, lawsuits or assaults-take them to the place the LORD your God will choose. 9 Go to the priests, who are Levites, and to the judge who is in office at that time. Inquire of them and they will give you the verdict. 10 You must act according to the decisions they give you at the place the LORD will choose. Be careful to do everything they direct you to do. 11 Act according to the law they teach you and the decisions they give you. Do not turn aside from what they tell you, to the right or to the left. 12 The man who shows contempt for the judge or for the priest who stands ministering there to the LORD your God must be put to death. You must purge the evil from Israel. 13 All the people will hear and be afraid, and will not be contemptuous again.

  - He ate leavened bread on Passover (Mark 14:22; Luke 22:19)
  - He ignored the law of burial (Matthew 8:22)
  - He ate while ritualistically unclean (Matthew 15:2)
  - He cut down fruit-bearing trees (Matthew 21:19-21)Matthew 21:19 we read, "And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon but leaves, and said unto it, 'Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever.' Presently the fig tree withered away." By this unjust action (temper tantrum) Jesus broke the law forbidding the destruction of fruit- bearing trees (Deut. 20:19-20).
  - He did not honor thy father and mother (Matthew 5:46-47)
  - He wronged another by speech (Matthew 23:33)

  Jesus disregarded the law demanding that an adulterous woman must be stoned (Jn 8:1ff)adultery forbidden (Ex. 20:14), the prescribed punishment is death (Lev. 20:10)

  Mark 5:12-13 tells how he caused the destruction of a large herd of swine. Yet, there is no record of him ever compensating their owner as is required by law (Lev. 24:18)

  In 5:32 Jesus says, "Whosoever shall put away (divorce) his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery." Here again Jesus contradicts the Law of Moses. According to Deut. 24:1-4 divorce is permitted and a divorced woman is allowed to remarry.

  In 5:33-37 Jesus forbids the taking of oaths.(The words "oath" and "vow" are used interchangeably throughout the Bible.) Such a prohibition contradicts traditional Jewish practice. Oath-taking is common throughout the Old Testament, particularly the Pentateuch.

  If it said, don’t touch a leper, Jesus broke the law. If the law said, don’t eat a certain kind of food, Jesus broke the law.

  S

  Ps, not that i have anything against the guy.
• 

  Terry

  Excellent, Satanus! Jesus would have been constantly before the judicial committee at the local Kingdom Hall!
• 

  Shining One

  No simple premise here, Terry. Your assumptions are simplistic though.
  >Is a Christian required to be a footstep follower of Jesus? Yes.
  A Christian is admonished to live a life befitting their savior. Once one has truly accepted Him and the Holy Spirit resides within him/her they are now free to choose between behaviors. This is a process: we are justified by the imputation of Christ's sacrifice paying our account in full. Sanctification is the life long process that a Christian goes through until they leave this world.
  >Are true Christians required to imitate Jesus' behavior and state of mind as closely as humanly possible? Yes.
  >Was Jesus a person who quietly followed the authorities in his religion of Judaism, or; did Jesus engage in discussion debate and controversy with them?
  He did indeed call them on their inequities and hypocrisy.
  >Jesus was engaged in active debate with those Authorities whom Jehovah had placed in their positions as teachers, leaders and administrators of His word and His law. Why would it be any different for Christians today? In Early Christianity the strongest and most notable feature of faith was seen in the following behavior.
  >1.Jesus constantly argued, questioned and debated with Authorities of his own religion'
  He is the Christ. He is God.
  2.Jesus constantly argued, questioned and debated his own disciples and apostles.
  Not at all. He taught them and discipled them. They went from the status to servants to that of friends.
  >3.Jesus was more interested in "why" than "what". Religious authority was more interested in conformity to their power and position.
  >4.The early feature of Christianity was the arguments and debates over who and what Jesus was as well as what true teaching was.
  Incorrect again. The earliest of Christians worshipped Jesus. Some of the pastoral letters were already in circulation before the end of the decade that Jesus died and rose again. The rest of the pastoral letters and gospels were well circulated before the decimation of Jerusalem in 70 a.d. Paul and the rest of the apostles spoke from the same authority and the Church did not have to explain doctrine until the heretics started to question the doctrines.
  >A. Jews under law vs. Christians freed from law and under the authority of a spirit-led conscience. B.Christian vs Christian over whether Gentiles should be included. C.Christian vs Christian over circumcision and dietary observances
  Orignal disputes as Christianity separated itself from Judaism.
  >Constantine's era of Roman Empire as Christian was an endless series of debates, arguments and tussles over what true doctrine was down to the smallest defintions of words.
  And this was only necessary because of the small number of but influential heretics who pushed the issue, mainly the gnostics on one side and the docetics on the other. I believe that your view of Christian history is warped by your apparent acceptance of the most liberal of scholars.
  Rex
• 

  Star Moore

  Terry....liked your post very much...To me, Jesus is the foremost apostate and also our example..

  I disagree with shining one.. about Jesus being God...
• 

  ICBehindtheCurtain

  Terry & Satanus excellent work, yes indeed, Jesus was an Apostate and we are all following in his footsteps when we denounce all the lies and hypocrisy of the WTS and other religions who claim to be God's voice, when there is no such thing.

  Ah, freedom to speak your mind is great isn't it? I feel sorry for all those who believe that to please God you have to give up your ability to reason and disagree!

  IC
• 

  Terry

  Experts on Textual Criticism and the history of the transmission (by copyists) of scripture agree that the majority of changes, deletions, insertions and outright pious frauds concern the effort to transform Jesus into God. The number one point of ongoing contention concerned the transformation of man into demi-god and finally deity. Remember who won this argument: the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH. Remember how they won it: USING A PAGAN EMPEROR's power to denounce people who disagreed. Stop and consider this. The Catholic Church was doing exactly what the Watchtower Corporation would do if it had the power of the Federal Government to enforce its policies against those whom they label APOSTATE. It is one thing to disagree. It is something else entirely to cutoff debate and declare your opponent a heretic, apostate and damned criminal. Think about it.
• 

  Deputy Dog

  Terry

  You are doing a fine job imitating "your Jesus"

  D Dog