~a timely bump~
sKally
Great Educational Tool for those studying or thinking of studying with JWS
by sf 60 Replies latest jw experiences
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shamus100
Skally,
Nice bump, again.
It's so very interesting to see how people can justify this bizarre behavior - that of never talking to they're kids, grandkids, friends, etc. ever again because an organization said so. Say it anyway you want, if you get disfellowshipped, disassosiate yourself, you are shunned. If you 'fall away', you will be looked down upon and have the implication that no witness should ever assosiate with you.
Cult, cult, cult.
Cult.
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sf
It's so very interesting to see how people can justify this bizarre behavior - that of never talking to they're kids, grandkids, friends, etc. ever again because an organization said so.
By "people", surely you mean the active jws of this forum.
By "behavior", surely you mean, adhering to deadly policies "because an organization said so".
By "bizarre", surely you mean insane.
There simply is NO excuse NOT to thoroughly research and study this organizations LETHAL POLICIES. Policies that kill its most innocent and helpless "members-by-parents", the children. The internet now affords ANYONE to do what many were not...INDEPENDANT STUDY.
Happy trails {{ lurkers }} !!
sKally
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sf
There simply is NO excuse NOT to thoroughly research and study this organizations LETHAL POLICIES.
{haha, never thought I'd quote myself}
Upon discovering, uncovering, and recovering these said facts, it is then paramount to 'BLOW YOUR WHISTLE' and make sure many others become Aware! of what you now know.
And boy, the possibilities are endless.
So again, happy trails.
sKally
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reniaa
The problem with reading the article quoted at the begining of this post, is you'll goto next meeting and waiting for fanged, googly-eyed JW ghouls ready to jump on you and feast on your flesh while your paralised in a mind controlled state, but you go in and just find an ordinary group of people just trying to serve their God. you find a good mix including all personality types from the fashion conscious teen, to the gossipy older woman, to the earnest MS brother etc
I watched a documentary on london pentacostal type church were they got into the euphuric atmosphere were people start screaming unintelligable words (they call it speaking in voices) and screaming they are healed getting extremely frenzied, the documentary showed the people were exhibiting the same symptoms you would get from a rock concert. this scares me far more than JW's just getting on with their life trying to apply God's word,
From my research of brain washing type groups they actively encourage this type of frenzied hysteria and there is a definite history of people experiencing delusions in these hysterical states. JW's don't do this!
My advice to lurkers and newbies is take on board information you get from this forum but remember to judge for yourself from your own experiences, this forum is a melting pot of people who for many reasons have problems with Jehovah's Witnesses or Watchtower society so you'll get a lot of personal opinon stated as facts, research for yourself which is what I do, also remember to apply the same set of standards to all faiths and beliefs not just JW's
Reniaa
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Georgiegirl
(sighs) Reniaa - you are both right and wrong. The initial post (over 2 years old) would never make me think of " fanged, googly-eyed JW ghouls ready to jump on you and feast on your flesh while your paralised in a mind controlled state". That's just silly, and silly to say, and when I see how hard you are working to be taken seriously on this board - I have to tell you - saying silly things like that will only serve to enforce the general belief that you are being brainwashed.
I recognize you are trying to bring what you see as "balance" to the board, and I can respect that. There are certainly enough people on this board who are angry and/or hurt by the policies of this organization who post in ways that do not seem balanced. I cringe when I read posts like that because I do have family still in and I think most people, when they read those kind of posts, snap to what they have been told to believe is true - that apostates are unbalanced and evil people. I also believe that most on this board are desperate to save others from the same devastatation they have experienced and use whatever methods they can to do so.
You are right when you say the vast majority in the congregations are just "just trying to serve their God". However, if you look back in history and examine the horrors of the inquisition, the crusades, etc etc, you could say the exact same thing. The majority were people with good hearts trying to do what they thought was right based on what their leaders taught them. Did that justify their actions? Did the fact that there were many in the same belief system who did not go to those extremes make those belief systems right?
This is an organization. It has the right to make up its own rules, just as any organization does. Those same rules break up families, protect pedophiles, prevent its members from thinking for themselves and being able to freely debate and to question, and use a bible that is controversial and verifiably mis-translated. If you want to be part of it because you think it brings you closer to God, fine. That is your choice and your right. You have been given many facts, much documentation (and granted, alot of opinions). There has been fact after verifiable fact provided to you to show that this is simply not an organization that a just and loving God would choose as his sole channel here on earth. If you want to be part of it - again - your choice and your right.
I guess my question is - if you truly want to be a part of it, why aren't you playing by their rules? Why do you choose to associate with "apostates"? Are you trying to "save" us and bring us back? Because honestly? You won't. These people think for themselves. Are you trying to make your own "faith" stronger by putting yourself above everyone else and making fun of how hurt ones choose to express themselves? Certainly not a Christian course. All are welcome here and I am not saying any of this to tell you that you are unwanted or to go away. I'm trying to understand exactly what it is you want to do. If you want to be a JW, then go and be one. Before you do, I suggest you print out your discussions here and take them to the elders. If you are not baptized, do you think you will be able to be baptized if it is known you are associating online with "apostates"? If you are baptized, what do YOU think will happen? What will be the counsel if you show that you are a rebel against the organizational direction? Do you want to be a part of that? If so, what is holding you back?
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Shawn10538
Renaiia,
I sincerely hope that you never have to expeience the cult aspects of the WT. Apparently, you just haven't been burned yet, so you just can't understand why people say it is a cult. Many people are born and die in a cult and never have any problems and are perfectly happy all their lives.
But, what you say about how "normal" JWs are (fasion conscience teen, little old lady, happy Minestreial servant) can be said about any cult. I know a scientologist who is the most normal guy in the world. In fact I didn't even know he was a scientologist for years! He never talks about it. He's just a normal guy. An old room mate of mine was a member of a Japanese cult infamous for recommending violent response aganst ex-members (drawing a blank on the name but they are discussed at freedom of mind.) There was simply nothing strange about her aside from her daily chanting which I joined in on often and I really enjoyed. I actually miss hearing her chanting in the mornings, it was like beautiful singing.
To expect that cult members take on some kind of zombie persona is to completely miss the point of what a cult is. You have been on this site for some time and have plenty of information that should and probably is causing much cognitive dissonance in your mind. But you are quite adept at neutralizing all dissenting information. I am actually impressed with how you calmly shoot down anything that smacks of criticism or accuses JWs of being a mind control cult.
Or, is it that you just have never fully comprehended what a cult is? You would probably benefit from studying OTHER cults, because as long as the subject at hand is JWs, frankly, you just are not going to see it... ever.
The reason why I believe that you just are not capable of detecting cult behavior in JWs is because you are, at least mentally, still a cult member. As long as you are an affected cult member, you are still intellectually captive, blinded, and incapable of seeing cult phenomena. In fact, you have already shut down while reading this sentence, and have gone into defense mode. This sentence is currently bouncing right off of your forehead. It is not getting through. From this point on, I am no longer talking to Renaiia, but I am talking to a cult member. And as we know, cult members do not know they are cult members.
So, this post, since it can not be appreciated by Renaiia, hopefully will help someone else. It will have no effect on you whatsoever. Nothing, I mean nothing, will ever convince you you are a cult member. Nothing ever convinces any cult member. They have to experience an awakening, actually losing some of their cult personality, before they can entertain the possibility that they are a cult member.
i hope you stay on this board though. I think it is healthy for the board to have JW defenders. after all, it would be kind of boring to have everyone agree with everyone else. I am curious though about why you are here. Maybe of I read some of your other posts I might get a picture. But, unerstand that it is pretty frustrating to read your posts because if you are right about JWs just being another religion, that kind of makes myself and others here who have had their lives ruined by the cult look like crazies that just cpuldn't get along with their normal religion and normal church members. If you are right, and JWs are just normal people in a normal religion, that even makes the verty existence of this site seem silly.
Think about that. -
reniaa
Hi shawn,
I love that word cognitive dissonance! do I switch off when people criticize Jw's and try and rationalise certain things to allow me to continue to be one? well this is a difficult issue because we all do when it concerns belief because we haven't got the answers to everything.
You have to decide if the evidence is overwhelming against something that there is no defence, on shunning the defence is the biblical scriptutres on it but how heavily do we apply it? here i agree with this forum in saying it's to harsh, i'm not trying to make excuses I accept it. But then I get people using cognative dissonance themselves when i mention the scriptures on shunning as they explain them away, Have you ever heard someone explain why being an adulterer, fornicator, gay isn't biblically wrong despite the scriptures? I think we are all in danger of rationalising towards our own viewpoint.
I first saw it on the Atheist site when I mentioned abiogenesis and this guy said how we began doesn't matter just that evolution is proved, another said I believe God started us off but then left evolution to do the rest both found ways to get past the difficult point of science not coming up with the answers rationalising it in their heads, I found myself doing it when trying to defend 'Noah's flood' it's a biggy because as science stands there is no prove of a worldwide flood quite the contrary but I survived by researching and finding out about all the flood stories worldwide like a collective memory, I told this to the atheist who then used his cognative dissonance to say well theirs always floods so you'll get flood stories,
The bible is what saves me if I use that as a centre to my beliefs then I can get by and as a poster above you says I should use a bible that hasn't so many mistranslations lol I would if one existed!!! when you get the catholics adding a scripture to try and uphold trinitarian beliefs and i've even had laialeo on here rationalise using the word cross even though it never appears in the bible and shes very strict on correct bible translation but if you believe in trinity you have to use cognative dissonace everytime you see a scriptures that say there is only one God.
We use a harsh scalpel here to cut at the deadwood away from WTs practises but if we then go on to swallow a lot of hoowie from another faith or belief then we haven't learned anything!
I feel genuine sadness for those hurt by some of the terrible mistakes done by WTS and can understand why they would never go back and that is their choice but for me JW's are still the most biblical correct of faiths because they are prepared to stand by what is written scriptually both the good stuff and the bad.
How many people on here have to apply cognative dissonace when viewing the apparent attrocities of God in the OT? I know I have on occasion, it's hard having to accept he did do those things, In this sense worshiping jesus helps i've noticed because then they can mentally divorce the OT from the Nt saying jesus is about love and ignore all that, I don't if I meet Jesus i'll be asking him why his father was so strict with the Israelites.
It's all swings and roundabouts in the end and each to there own. but I won't condemn Wts on one hand and then go on to accept similar stuff in another by virtue that it is just another faith they have to answer to the same set of rules in my book!
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Open mind
Reniaa,
Please accept this as it is intended, that is, sincerely with no sarcasm or ridicule.
I'm very glad you're still here.
Your last post was the least biased I've read from you so far.
Of course it has some bias, and that's fine. We've all got plenty of bias to go around.
Peace to you on your journey. Wherever it leads.
om
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AK - Jeff
I have a thing or two to say regarding the matter of shunning and Jehovah's 'Christian' Witnesses.
They do it! They endorse how it is to be done! They hurt others when they do it!
I left the religion because they lied to me. I did not, even to this day, ever do anything that they could use to dis-fellowship me under normal circumstances. I AM SHUNNED EVERYDAY!
In Wal-Mart. At the service station. On the street. In restaurants. In the grocery store.
Anyone who does not understand the hatefulness of this policy, has either never been a JW and then left, or is totally blind.
How can this matter even be debated? There is no debate. They lay it all out in the Watchtower. They twist the scriptures to support the policy. They can/do dis-fellowship others for violation of the policy. Just ask Ray Franz. They printed the articles just to get rid of him.
Jeff