Please explain how disfellowshipping is a loving gesture

McKafka99

Can someone please outline the rationale and scriptures used to support the idea that disfellowshipping is a loving gesture? I am trying to understand how this behavior is justified, when in my mind in seems a simple matter; one only needs ask oneself, 'If Jesus (or Jehovah) were standing next to you, would Jesus (or Jehovah), support any shunning-type actions?' I find it very difficult that the answer would ever be 'yes'. While I know I could never agree to any rationaliztion for it, I'd like to try to comprhend it. Thanks.

Lady Lee

I'm not too good on the scripture part but I'll take a crack at the rationale part

It's like a time-out you give children who have been bad and have to sit in the corner. No one is allowed to talk to you until they think you have been

punished enough
are sorry for what you did
jump through hoops to prove you want to really come back and be good
realize that if you continue to do bad things they will leave you in the corner - no food, no family and no frieds

Dismembered

Please explain how disfellowshipping is a loving gesture

It's not. It's one of many sick teachings & practices the watchtower pipsqueek cult has devised.

Dismembered

LittleToe

There's nothing loving about it. Even in the testcase of Paul vs the incestuous dude, he talks about giving him up to allow Satan to do his worst.

It was always about keeping the congregation in check with a rod of fear.

Personally, while I don't believe in any of the JW dogma anymore, their manner of disfellowshipping is singularly the main reason that I call them a cult. It's tantamount to mental and emotional [cruelty / abuse] !!!

John 8 & 9 sums up Jesus view in a couple of different cases, to me.

MidwichCuckoo

Not sure as it's in the Bible (sigh). I can't imagine Jesus/any loving, rational person doing it.

BUT to a minority of dubs, it's a Means to an End... (not Scriptual, just Organisational)

Gill

It isn't loving and it's a death sentence to some people.

There is a case in the coroners court where I live, coming up on Wednesday, of a young JW woman who killed herself after being disfellowshiped. Some of her JW family have conveniently 'gone missing' rather than give evidence in the coroners court over why she did it.

I thought a little justice may be due this young woman. I sent all of 'undisfellowshiped' (I believe) Watchtower quotes to the local newspaper and written to the editor of the same (I say local, but this is a very LARGE local newspaper). I've explained the circumstances of what happened to this woman, how she had been in love and had an affair with the same JW elder for 25 years. (He was married). Suddenly, he ups and leaves with yet another woman, who is pregnant with his child. The left behind JW young woman killed herself, after throwing herself on the Elders mercy and being disfellowshipped.

The family are not willing to give evidence over the disfellowshipping and how they ignored her for weeks, before she killed herself, (except for one sister who kept checking on her).

Well, if this newspaper runs with this, it may well give the WTBTS some publicity it may not like.

I hope that they do, for this young woman's sake.

I'll let you know what happens.

Broken Hearted

McKafka99,

I too am having a hard time with this concept. I hear their reasoning, but something is missing and that is compassion, and the love. I thought we were to follow Jesus' example, and if that be the case in John 8:1-12 the Scribes and Pharisees ( hmmm sound familiar?) bring a woman caught in adultery to Jesus and they tell on her saying she was caught in adultery ( sound familar?) The law at that time was not disfellowshipping but stoning. And he tries to ignore them however they persist, and then he says "He who is without sin among you let him throw a stone at her first." (Verse 7 KJV) Then Verses 10-11 he says "Woman where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you? and she says "No one Lord" and Jesus says "Neither do I condemn you:; go and sin no more." The NWT does not have this passage with the rest of the passages in their version of the bible. It is put in as a note at the bottom of the page that verses 7:53-8:11 were not in the manuscripts Bsy.

About Family Shunning, what about the scriptures Ephesians 6:1-4 KJV 1 "Children, obey your parents in the Lord for this is right." (Talks about obeying your parents in the LORD not the WTBS Rules and Regulations, only answering to God here ) 2 "Honor ( http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary/honor) your father and mother, which is the first commandment with promise: 3 "that you may be well with you and you may live long on the earth." 4 And you, fathers do no provoke ( http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/provoke) your children to wrath, ( http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary/wrath) but bring them up in the training and admonition ( http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/admonition) of the Lord."

Another scripture I was looking at since the WTBS likes to use, 1 Cor 5:9-11 as a reference for this, how about the scripture Luke 15:1-7 (KJV) where the Pharisees and Scribes murmur that Jesus receives sinners and eats with them Jesus replies 4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it?” 5 “And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing.” 6 “And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them “rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!” 7 “I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just person who need no repentance.” Now my reasoning on this is not that the sheep that is lost, should wonder back on his own accord after seeking repentance but that he needs guidance back and that we should all be shepherds and not condone what someone does but help lead them spiritually back to God.

They use 1 John 2:18-19 to justify the shunning of those in the congregation. ( http://www.watchtower.org/library/w/1988/4/15/article_01.htm ) However, I can’t not remotely see how this could be used for justification. It says (JKV) 18 “little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the hour.” 19 “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us they were not of us; for if they had been of us they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.” Now if you go and read on in the scriptures further it defines the antichrist , 20-23 20 “But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things.” 21 “I have not written to you because you do no know the truth, but because you know it, and no lie is of the truth.” 22 “Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.” 23 “Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.” No where does it say that you should not keep contact with those that have left. I also feel that this is also referring to those that have denied God and his son all together.

I tend to follow Jesus’ example more than I do those of Paul’s letter writing or sermons, while he was appointed by God and anointed, I still feel personally that he was human just like we are today and was subject to his own opinions. He was not perfect and therefore you have to take what was said and preached and listen to the Holy Spirit for the confirmation of the Truth.

These are just my thoughts and opinions, hope I do not offend anyone

Tina ( not as broken hearted as I was when I joined this site)

minimus

It's simple. It's just like stoning a loved one to death. It's all about love.

Warlock

It is a loving gesture to the Cong. when the disfellowshipped one is a child molester, don't you agree?

Warlock

Fleur

It is a loving gesture to the Cong. when the disfellowshipped one is a child molester, don't you agree?

Warlock, it would be loving if they reported the molesting to the police instead of trying to keep things quiet. Putting a molester in prison is one sure way to protect the congregation wouldn't you say?

Not only that but a lot, dare I venture to say most molesters do not get df'd? Because between the two witness rule (what molester invites someone to watch their horrible activities?) and the begging forgiveness and repentance thing...many are left in the congregation to rape and molest again and again.

Littletoe has it exactly right; it's about command and control. How many JW's would stay if they knew they could choose to leave and not lose everything and everyone they love? Especially if you're born in, it seems like there is no easy way to get out if you don't believe it. Everyone I had ever loved or been friends with with few exceptions ceased all contact with me when I divorced a man who mistreated me and married one who does not.

How was I a danger to the congregation? I think my real crime was refusing to be dominated by males and thinking for myself; and realizing I did deserve better.

I think the only loving thing about df'ing is that it can help you to see the truth about the org. I still believed when I was df'd. I actually da'd but they ignored it and df'd me because I was family of the PO. To be made an example of.

Only after I was out a couple years, did I have the strength to overcome the watchtower instilled fear of apostates and put JW's into a search engine. I found freeminds and that was the beginning of my getting free.

So I consider Df'ing to be a protection now. I wrote a post on that a long time ago, here's the link http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/18180/1.ashx

It's not loving, it protects no one because a lot of the most dangerous people do not get kicked out...and no one is safe in a kingdom hall. Believe it. Btw...has anybody seen this? http://experts.about.com/q/Jehovah-s-Witness-1617/excomunication.htm Who wants to be the one to post a reply?? :D

essie

Please explain how disfellowshipping is a loving gesture

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