other side of the coin

spider

Perhaps I will be attacked for this thread, I am not sure.I am as shocked as can be by the terrorist atrosity perpetrated today.I have watched all afternoon and evening and still can't quite take it in.
I have heard the people involved described as evil cowards in the west.I accept this statement and as I have aleady stated deplore the action but I feel that the media only shows one side of the coin.
The pilots that commited suicide were certainly not cowards.They believed in their cause enough to give their lives for it.These, along with the many that orchestrated this event put a lot of time, money and sacrifice in to this.
This is the part of the story I am unclear about.This is the part which is not being explained - at least not to my feeble understanding.
Why do so many of the middle eastern countries hate the west as much as they do.Sure Iraq has good reason but what about the others.
There are two sides to every story and as much as I hate what has happened I wonder what theirs is.Why do they dance on the streets now?
America has bombed countries.In Serbia to get rid of Milosivich.They must have hated America then but this was out of a lack of information.
I do not believe evil exists - evil acts but not evil as an entity.It is all too easy when asked why atrosity is performed to simply answer - the person was evil.There has got to be more to it than that. What brought about these murderous acts.Was it the kind of mind control that was perpetrated on us as witnesses.After all, the witnesses would take delight in the coming Armageddon when billons of people will die.
Is this evidence of a similar condition?
Perhaps this is the wrong time for such a discussion.It certainly isn't my intent to upset anyone.

SixofNine

A specific belief about God= crazyness

We were all crazy at one time, these peoples crazyness is even more dastardly exploited than ours was.

Why do I say specific beliefs about God are crazy? Because God has not been at all specific about himself/herself/itself. Therefore, specific beliefs about him/her are, to a greater or lesser extent, all wacko. there is no specific evidence to back up the belief. ie: make-believe.

DCs Ghost

spider

it is there interpretation of the koran which leads them to act the way they do. . .
which leads them to fanaticism

dc

spider

It's all down to the interpretation of the koran?
If this is the case then is there not some similarity between what we were and these murderers? We would have died for the cause, ala blood transfusions.We would have been dancing on the graves of six billion people just as they were dancing at the killing of thousands.
Sure we would not have been called on to do the deed but surely thats just a technicality but we would have waved and cheared as someone else did.
Are they monsters or just very misled,religiously fanatical, mind controlled people?
Don't bite - I'm just asking

SixofNine

Are they monsters or just very misled,religiously fanatical, mind controlled people?

The answer to that is pretty self evident isn't it? a)we know they are monsters. b) we know that they are very misled, religiously fanatical, mind controlled people.

So obviously, both.

Jigrigger

Hi spider,

"Why do so many of the middle eastern countries hate the west as much as they do."

I see it like this...

Picture the schoolyard. Mouthy little prick (Israel) sees one of his classmates (Palestine) playing on the monkey bars. Mouthy little prick pushes classmate off bar: "This is for ME to play on...and if you try to get back on my best friend (who happens to be the school bully, the U.S.) is going kick your ass...
Even though the teacher (U.N.) tells mouthy little prick he has to SHARE with his classmates, the teacher is scared of the bully too...so the mouthy little prick ends up getting his way...
Then the classmate realizes that the bully is just as much responsible as the mouthy little prick for the shit he has to put up with and figures if he can find a way of making the bully pay for his friendship with this asshole the bully might tell the little jerk to fight his own battles...

I realize I'll likely get jumped on big time for this post...

Jrig

spider

Okey - one last question and then I'll give this one up
In war killing is acceptable.
Terrorism is deemed uncceptable.
I am not always sure there is a difference between them.The Irish Republican Army believed themselves at war with Britain.The killings of British were understood by them to be casualties of this war. Britain though did not accept they were at war and called the IRA terrorists.So much is in the terminology.
I do not understand the situation in the Middle East very well.It is all too evident that they hate the Americans.I also heard one Muslim on the television say that they hated the Americans involvement in their region.That the Americans had hit them repeatedly with missiles and many believed that a state of war existed between them.
This was his view, right or wrong.If though,as this one spokesman believed that a state of war existed between America and his country then are these terrorists or soldiers.
It is accepted that in war people die.Terrorism however is however a different story.Or is it?
It probably appears that I am in some way in agreement with what has gone on.I cannot stress enough that I was incredibly distressed at the pictures of people in the buildings as they came crashing down.It was and is awful.
I just think the question "why" has not really been covered in any depth.
If I just travelled a thousand or so miles to Afganistan I could talk to people with a very different point of view.I wonder what it would be.
Okey, thats it from me.I'm off to bed.

Satanus

Spider

An admirable way of thinking. There are always reasons, even though they may not be known well on this continent.

At this point i have no idea who is guilty of the tragedy which happened today. I can breifly explain why the palestinians are dancing in the streets. In 1947-8 israelis recieved control of a portion of the middle east. Already about six months befor this date they had been pushing against the palestinian inhabitants. Israeli soldiers massacred civilian men, women and children in a few towns, terrorising the other citizens. About 700,000 inhabitants in the area fled for their lives. Later, when they attempted to return to homes, shops and bank accounts, they found their way barred. So 'refugee' camps formed.

The israeli army has all the best weaponry: tanks, bulldosers, helicopters, jets, guns, you name it. Most of this materiel was either sold or given to them by the american government. The palistinians have a few weapons, but their main weapons are molotov cocktails and stones. So they see the US as co-oppressor with israel.

If you watch what happens at the UN, you will see that as far as the middle east is concerned, it's often the US and israel that are voted against by the rest of the world.

I believe that the news on this continent is different than the news in europe, asia etc.

S

Silverleaf

Hello Spider, I had to respond to some of your points, please bear with me- you wrote:

>>The pilots that commited suicide were certainly not cowards.<<

Oh, ABSOLUTELY they were cowards. It takes much more courage to live, love and make a difference than it does to get caught up in the 'I'll go down in a blaze of glory mentality.' These creatures are the worst kind of coward.

>>They believed in their cause enough to give their lives for it.<<

Sorry, I don't buy that. They 'gave' nothing. They TOOK the lives of innocent people, most likely for the greater glory of something that exists only in their minds.

>>These, along with the many that orchestrated this event put a lot of time, money and sacrifice in to this.<<

Yes, true. They sacraficed their humanity.

>>Why do so many of the middle eastern countries hate the west as much as they do.Sure Iraq has good reason but what about the others.
There are two sides to every story and as much as I hate what has happened I wonder what theirs is.Why do they dance on the streets now?<<

Jealousy? Our way of life is a threat to them. Likewise I think the bitter truth is they need us more than we need them. That threatens them and frightens them.

>>I do not believe evil exists - evil acts but not evil as an entity.It is all too easy when asked why atrosity is performed to simply answer - the person was evil.There has got to be more to it than that. What brought about these murderous acts.Was it the kind of mind control that was perpetrated on us as witnesses.After all, the witnesses would take delight in the coming Armageddon when billons of people will die.Is this evidence of a similar condition?<<

I think it is. These people are brainwashed to believe that somehow their misery was all caused by the US. The information they receive is carefully controlled so that they know nothing else.

Please realize, Spider, I'm not attacking you. I think someone had to bring up these points and personally I feel a great need to vent my feelings of frustration and helplessness. Thanks for providing the venue.

Silverleaf

larc

Spider,

I have this friend who has cancer. I told him to take a philosophical view. Cancer cells have a right to grow. You can't blame them for taking over a host body and prosper. For some reason, my words didn't seem to comfort him.

Hate groups are a cancer in society, and they have to be removed regardless of their sincerity. Groups like the JWs have to be challenged, controlled, or forced to change. Their doctrines have caused far more deaths and human misery that we witnessed today.

other side of the coin

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