At ground ZERO

by Patriot 24 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  outnfree

  nytelecom1, Frank(? any relation to Fred?) Hall, and the wiz,

  Nobody, and obviously not anybody on this thread, is really blanket condemning all of Jehovah's Witnesses. As some have pointed out elsewhere, the glee expressed on WOL is not likely representative of how the rank and file feel. Not all JWs are "morons."

  In fact, of all days, yesterday was the first time I came face to face with a real, live Jehovah's Witness since my disassociation. It was an elder, no less, who is now serving at another Hall as my Hall split about a year ago. We were in a hospital waiting room and witnessed live the second plane crashing into the South Tower, the President's remarks, etc. He did not greet me by name. But neither did he completely shun me. He, rather, treated me like he would any stranger standing by and we traded comments on the horrific events.

  In the back of my mind I was wondering if he would use the tragedy as a 'talking point' with others in the waiting room. Captive audience and all. Now, where did that thinking on my part come from? The three of you, if you are honest, will reply that it came from my years of JW training to seize on current news events to further the spreading of the kingdom good news!!!

  And what many are decrying here, in this and other threads, is how often the WTS has urged the publishers to do just that! And also how the WT magazine pointed to the events of the 20th century (and now has had to revise its literature since we made it to the 21st) as the beginning of the Great Tribulation time and time again! And already, people on this board are hearing from JW relatives that THIS is it!!!

  Meanwhile, it is very nice that the Society opened its doors and gave refreshment and haven to those escaping over the bridges on foot from the southern tip of Manhattan Island. What is astounding to me is that this is thought of as SPECIAL in any way. It is NOT special. It is NOT a great show of true Christian love, either. It is just an act of human kindness, of which there were myriad yesterday. So the Society opened its doors (the website is very vague as to whom and to how many. As a former PR person, they could have just opened their doors to JWs only and the release would still be technically true, but I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt).
  Doors were being opened all over the place. One would expect nothing less from the so-called 'true' religion, right?

  Anyway, I am happy to report that my former elder did NOT prey on the emotions of those in the waiting room. But knowing him as I do, he certainly WILL use it as a 'talking point' in this weekend's field service. GUAR - AN - TEED!!!!

  And that will STILL be too soon with wounds too fresh and will be inappropriate.

  Better to offer prayer (and NOT the "Please, Jehovah, make the survivors and mourners come into the organization now, quick!" variety) and compassion.

  outnfree

  Par dessus toutes choses, soyez bons. La bonte est ce qui ressemble le plus a Dieu et ce qui desarme le plus les hommes -- Lacordaire
• 

  Jim Lad

  Nicely said TR, I especially like the part about their peeholes! Haha.
• 

  SixofNine

  So Wizzer, how do you explain capitalizing on such neighborlyness by submitting a press release? I mean, in light of Christ mannerisms and all.

  I mean honestly, that has to sicken you a little?
• 

  Uncanny

  Patriot,

  I want to commend your willingness to help New York City, your city in need. You and your colleagues in NYPD and other Emergency Departments have my great admiration and moral support for your efforts to try and find some more life among the ruins.

  RIP

  And to all the members of the families of the heroes and heroines from the Fire Departments and the Police Deprtments who never made it out, my sincerest sympathy and condolences.

  I personally don't think this is the time to argue about religion.
  The World Trade Towers tragedy is being called "the largest single disaster in the history of mankind." Not religion. It's a shame how religion - true, false or indifferent - and racism are still the core reasons why this planet remains unable to live united.

  Where was our God last night?

  Uncanny
• 

  outnfree

  (((((Patriot)))))),

  Please forgive me.

  I am under a bit of stress right now, so my thoughts are sometimes "disconnected".

  I did not mean to leave out my sincere thanks for the work of NY's Finest yesterday, today and always! You guys are the BEST!!! Tough on the outside, hearts of gold inside, real students of mankind having to deal with all kinds. Thank you for your willingness to extend yourself on behalf of others, risking your life at times to do what is necessary and right.

  outnfree
• 

  RedhorseWoman

  see how biased you are RedhorseWoman. In your hatred you don't give the WTBS any credit whatsoever. You make it seems like they are cold heartless bastards. If a witness helps people coming over the Brooklyn bridge it is for alterior motives? You are really sick.

  For some reason, Wiz, you seem to have a personal vendetta against me. Any particular reason?

  Once again, please show me how reiterating the general comments from active JWs about this tragedy indicates that I "hate" anyone.

  I am, rather, appalled at the lack of love being shown by these "true Christians". Very few have expressed any caring towards those not JWs. In almost every instance it was rather concern for JWs only and excitement at the new preaching opportunities that will open up.

  This doesn't mean that I hate the people making these comments....but I do hate their attitudes and outlook. I hope that many of these poor, deluded souls can eventually make their way back into the human race, and become compassionate people. Perhaps even you, Wiz, might have a chance. Are you willing to consider it?
• 

  Vitameatavegamin

  Frank Hall,

  I feel alot of anger in you're posts. I am an inactive JW and part of my complaint is self righteous people that are so sure they are the ONLY ones who know what is going on. We as humans should not be so sure of ourselves that we go to the point of condemning others viciously. Sure, there is right and wrong.But, We need to remember the scripture that says "Judge not, that you should not be judged".

  There is a reason that God has reserved judging for himself. He is the only One that can read hearts and know what we are REALLY about. I am in no way saying that "anything goes", and that "once saved always saved". I don't believe that. But, God does expect certain things of us, and I think when it comes to deciding who is and who isn't in the end is up to God, not us.

  Yes, I believe this world as it is will come to end, and there is something better for the future of mankind. But JWs at times don't give God the respect that they preach about so vehemently. If they truly believe that that Jehovah is the only judge, then why do so many JWs take it upon themeselves to decide who you are and how you are? How can they incinuate that I will not be on the other side?? How do they know they will be?? Because they attended more meetings than I did?? Because they put in more hours of service than I did? There are people in congregations worldwide right now seeming that they are doing all the "right" things. But underneath, there is not a whole lot there in their hearts. It has become, in my humble opinion anyway, that is has become about who does more rather than focusing on who is trying to be a Christian from their hearts. Since I have been inactive, I have been left out of gatherings for friends, and other activities. Yet, I know those in the cong. that never miss a meeting but are involved in very questionable activities. I am in good standing and I feel for my friends from my heart, not because they never miss a meeting.

  Yes, JWs have alot of very good points. I do agree with alot of the teachings. But I can't get past all this pre judging that goes on. It seems like the wrong people can get penalized. The horrible tragedy in New York may or may not be a sign of things ending soon. Whether JW or not, these poor people are enduring incredible losses, things that you and I may never see. This tragedy crosses all racial and religious barriers. I HARDLY think that God himself is looking down in this and saying,"Gee, so and so was not part of the organization, Jehovahs Witnesses".

  We need to give god a little more respect than that.

  How shallow can we be??????

  Just my thoughts. Thanks!
• 

  thewiz

  Don't think the papers and news are not capitalizing on this event.

  Jesus was an opportunist, he used the examples of the Pharasees and Sadducces to expose thier hypocrtical nature. He used the destruction of the temple 586 B.C.E. He used the flood as an example. He foretold the destruction of Jersulalem in 70. People used that opportunity in 66 to think back on his words and get out. They used his words to take corrective action in their lives for survival. They were reminded.

  Was Jesus an opportunist, damn right he was. He used the opportunity to preach that the kingdom of God was here/near. And that all prophecy was fulfilled in him. People woke up. Especially the immediate disciples and later the 120, then the 3,000 and 5,000. It was and is an occaision that can be used to help people understand things, the world around them, while thier awareness is peaked.

  Why can't the WTBS remind people, in the same way.

  It's a free country, but with some of these posts you'd never believe it, at least when it comes to JWs and the WTBS.

  You people are a constant source of unforgiving backbiters.

  It's like I said in another thread. Take an "opposing" view on anything that appears to be even in the smallest way the general consensus on these forums, is to welcome villification. People tend to stick with and defend their own, any outsider is not welcome (anyone with an opposing view), berated, lambasted, raked over the coals, lacks intellegience. The whole gambit.

  It's the constant berating of those who take the "unpopular" or "opposing" view that makes me think these forums are only to serve one cause. It's not truth, it's not to encourage, it's not to upbuild. It's to berate people who are simply and fundamentally different from you.

  Although many of you won't believe it, I am guilty of this same behavior. I suppose I am just as critical/hypocritical on certain points. Maybe, it's part of my great awakening.

  If they have a press release or not
  you complain

  they close their doors or open them
  you complain

  they help or don't help
  you complain

  Of course they are going to be naturally drawn to thier own and especially sympathetic to them. Does that mean they don't care about anyone else?

  RedHorseWomen aren't you drawn to people you can relate to more readily than others. People who believe in your causes and fight for your rights. People you directly sympathize with? It's sociology not necessarily religon.

  I've heard the reports of people saying "Oh, my friend works there, I hope they are all right." What about the other 10,000 people? Did, they imply by their response/reaction for their immediate friends mean they have no sympahty for anyone else? No it did not!

  you people are a descredit to your own selves. you are rather counter-productive.
• 

  SixofNine

  Honestly Wiz, coming from you? You carry more anger at the WT org in your pinky finger than I think I ever had!

  They are, by your own words, worthless shit, yet you cling to them. No wonder you are depressed. Your soul needs your mind to be consistant and stick up for simple truth. Don't dis-believe and yet somehow cling to your old beliefs. You will go, as you well know, quit mad. It's time for wiz to give wiz a break.
• 

  zev

  frank hall:

  The harlot and the wild beast are going at it.

  hey frank...
  what if i told you....that the harlot, and the wild beast are going at it....oh and the wtbts, is a member of the united nations?

  have i got your attention yet?

  -Zev
  -August 8th, 2001 - The day the lambs ROARED