The only true WT victims are the children who were raised in it from birth. They are the innocents who had absolutely no choice about what they learned, and are the ones who have the hardest time coping when they leave the org as adults.
Adults who become JWs are more nebulous to category. I think of them as victims, but only to a point, because their motivations for joining vary. My parents became JWs, IMO, because of their poor and traumatic upbringings during the Depression and WWII. I think the JWs offered them a place of "refuge and safety" from the chaotic outside world. Others may join for the ready-made "brotherly and sisterly love" they think exists there.
But no matter the motivation, adult JWs had the responsibility to think their decision through before joining, and that they did not do so takes away from their victim status. They should have known better, for themselves and especially for their children.
How do we define a "Victim of the Watchtower" ?
by kid-A 20 Replies latest jw friends
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parakeet
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DanTheMan
but it takes either a rube or complete knave to actually believe the watchtower shit
Kid A, usually I enjoy your input on this forum, but I really don't appreciate these remarks, as I think you're overlooking the emotional aspect of JW conversion. Here's some comments I made on another thread concerning this same issue:
I think that raised-in-da-troof ex-JW's who look down on converts like myself are IMO inexperienced and immature. It's an attitude of, 'JWism is just this ugly little spot of humanity that is wholly unique and all people on the outside are so great and normal, so how could you have ever joined?'
If that is a person's attitude, I think they need to try harder to understand that a) growing up in a non-JW home can really suck too (yes Virginia there are horribly dysfunctional families that aren't JW's); and b) The JW package as it is pitched to persons who don't have intimate experience with the day-to-day reality of JW life sounds very appealing and ideal: A radical personality transformation! A surrender of one's personal ego into a collective (and therefore, seemingly more legitimate and purposeful) one! Participation in a preaching work of unprecedented scale, to be followed by a dramatic apocalypse where JW's will be spared and will go on to live forever in a peaceful new world! To a depressed, lonely, and confused person these are powerfully attractive notions. Converting to JWism is not a matter of intelligence, it's a matter of emotional vulnerability.
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Scully
I think we often give the WTS far too much credit in terms of their brainwashing abilities.
The indoctrination process is just one facet of brainwashing, though.
There are environmental and information controls, behaviour controls, fear mongering and the induction of paranoia. There's the dynamic between Teacher and Student, wherein the Student is reluctant to challenge the Teacher's "expertise". The deck is stacked in favor of the JWs - their numbers at the KH, the "love bombing" of newbies at the KH - it's overwhelming to the Student and they have no mental or emotional resources to fight against it.
They may be the biggest knuckleheads and buffoons in the civilized world, but the program is set up to work. And it does what it's supposed to do in the right set of circumstances.
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DanTheMan
They may be the biggest knuckleheads and buffoons in the civilized world, but the program is set up to work. And it does what it's supposed to do in the right set of circumstances.
Thanks Scully.
Christ.
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Scully
Dan:
I think we often give the WTS far too much credit in terms of their brainwashing abilities.
The indoctrination process is just one facet of brainwashing, though.
There are environmental and information controls, behaviour controls, fear mongering and the induction of paranoia. There's the dynamic between Teacher and Student, wherein the Student is reluctant to challenge the Teacher's "expertise". The deck is stacked in favor of the JWs - their numbers at the KH, the "love bombing" of newbies at the KH - it's overwhelming to the Student and they have no mental or emotional resources to fight against it.
They may be the biggest knuckleheads and buffoons in the civilized world, but the program is set up to work. And it does what it's supposed to do in the right set of circumstances.
It may not have been clear, but I was referring to the WTS, not the people recruited into the Org. I apologize for the misunderstanding.
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kid-A
"Kid A, usually I enjoy your input on this forum, but I really don't appreciate these remarks"
Sorry Dan, but I stand by my original remarks. Surely you would accept the premise that individuals, regardless of baseline intelligence, may have momentary or sustained periods of lowered intellectual defenses? One does not even have to scratch the surface of JW teachings to see the inherent stupidity and absurdity, these characteristics are evident at the most superficial levels of watchtower teachings.
Having said that, I certainly dont discount the role of emotional lability in one being vulnerable to JW indoctrination. Emotional lability, however, does not give the individual carte blanche to accept ludicrous beliefs or worse, to endanger the lives of innocent bystanders, which, in the example I gave regarding the adult convert and their children, would certainly be the case. The point is, the buck has to stop somewhere, and personal responsibility has to begin at some point in an individuals life, regardless of external circumstances.
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Undecided
There is good and bad in almost everything. Being a good JW probably saved my life. I didn't have to go to the war and sacrifice my life for some political scheme. Today it probably saves many youths from being a dope addict, or getting aids. All the policies of the JWs arn't bad. It does controll too many aspects of your life and can ruin your family sometimes. It can ruin your ability to provide for your old age finanically and many other things. I'm not bitter because my parents raised me as a JW, they were loving parents, but I did waste many years of my life trying to satisfy the WT society.I'm pretty well satisfied with my life, I've been out over 30 years and can't complain too much about anything.
Ken P.
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blondie
I found this book very helpful in identifying spiritual abuse, WTS or non-WTS. If you have been a member of a church or religious organization that has these characteristics, you are very likely a victim of spiritual abuse. I found this book enlightening since the 2 authors write not about the WTS and are not nor have ever been JWs.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1556611609/103-8252614-7714267?v=glance&n=283155
Identifying the Abusive System
1. Power-Posturing “Power-posturing simply means that leaders spend a lot of time focused on their own authority and reminding others of it, as well. This is necessary because their spiritual authority isn’t real—based on genuine godly character—it is postured.” (p.63)
2. Performance Preoccupation “If obedience and service is flowing out of you as a result of your dependence on God alone, you won’t keep track of it with an eye toward reward, you’ll just do it. But if you’re preoccupied with whether you’ve done enough to please God, then you’re not looking at Him, you’re looking at your own works. And you’re also concerned about who else might be looking at you, evaluating you. Why would anyone keep track of their ‘godly’ behaviour unless they were trying to earn spiritual points because of it?” (p.65)
“Are obedience and submission important? Without question. This can be seen in Romans 13:1…1 Peter 5:5…and Hebrews 13:17. To bring balance, however, we must add to these verses an equally important passage. Consider the words of Peter and the other apostles in Acts 5:29: ‘We must obey God rather than men.’ Notice that Peter is saying this to the religious leaders he was disobeying. Out of context, obedience to leaders looks like good theology. Add the larger context, and you will see that it is only appropriate to obey and submit to leadership when their authority is from God and their stance is consistent with His.” (p.66)
“In Romans 12:2 Paul says, ‘Do not be conformed… but be transformed… ’. In a performance-based church or family, that verse might be applied like this: ‘Our church or leader is right; we have a truer, purer ‘word’ from God than others. Therefore, we must adhere to our formula or brand of Christianity as hard and fast as possible—so we won’t become like those out there who don’t think as we do. If I do not live up to all I’ve been taught here, I will be letting God down.’ This orientation squeezes people from the outside in. They are not transformed, they are conformed.” (p.66)
3. Unspoken Rules “‘You know we must never disagree with the pastor on his sermons—and if you do, you will never be trusted and never be allowed to minister in any capacity in this church.’ In this case, the unspoken rule is: Do not disagree with the church authorities —especially the pastor—or your loyalty will be suspect. Rules like this remain unspoken, because examining them in the light of mature dialogue would instantly reveal how illogical, unhealthy and anti-Christian they are. So silence becomes the fortress wall of protection, shielding the pastor’s power position from scrutiny or challenge.” (p.67)
“If you speak about the problem out loud, you are the problem.”
“The truth is, when people talk about problems out loud, they don't cause them, they simply expose them.” (p.68)
“Too many churches communicate this kind of shaming message: ‘The problem is not that your boundaries were crossed and violated, the problem is that you talked. If you would not have made such a big deal, everything would still be fine.’ If a person accepts that message, they will stop talking.
The real problem, however, is that if a Christian who feels violated stops talking, then the perpetrator will never be held accountable for his behaviour.” (p.69)
4. Lack of Balance Johnson and VanVonderen identify two extremes, both of which produce an unbalanced approach to living out the Christian life—Extreme Objectivism and Extreme Subjectivism.
“The first extreme is an empirical approach to life, which elevates objective truth to the exclusion of valid subjective experience.” (p.69)
“This approach to spirituality creates a system in which authority is based upon the level of education and intellectual capacity alone, rather than on intimacy with God, obedience and sensitivity to his Spirit.” (p.70)
“The other manifestation of lack of balance is seen in an extremely subjective approach to Christian life. What is true is decided on the basis of feelings and experiences, giving more weight to them than what the Bible declares.” (p.70)
“Even further, we believe it is dishonest—even dangerous—simply to receive and act upon a spiritual directive because you are ‘supposed to be submissive’, or because someone is ‘in authority’. In the end, God is the One before whom we must all stand, the one to whom we must answer.” (p.71)
5. Paranoia “In a place where authority is grasped and legislated, not simply demonstrated, persecution sensitivity builds a case for keeping everything within the system. Why? Because of the evil, dangerous, or unspiritual people outside of the system who are trying to weaken or destroy ‘us’. This mentality builds a strong wall or bunker around the abusive system, isolates the abusers from scrutiny and accountability, and makes it more difficult for people to leave—because they will be outsiders, too.” (p.73)
“Ironically, Jesus and Paul both warned that one of the worst dangers to the flock was from wolves in the house (Matthew 10:16; Acts 20:29-30).” (p.74)
6. Misplaced Loyalty “The next characteristic of spiritually abusive systems is that a misplaced sense of loyalty is fostered and even demanded. We’re not talking about loyalty to Christ, but about loyalty to a given organization, church, or leader.” (p.76)
“A common way this is accomplished is by setting up a system where disloyalty to or disagreement with the leadership is construed as the same thing as disobeying God. Questioning leaders is equal to questioning God. After all, the leader is the authority, and authority is always right. This causes people to misplace their loyalty in a leader, a church or an organization.” (p.76)
“There are three factors that come into play here, adding up to misplaced loyalty. First, leadership projects a ‘we alone are right’ mentality, which permeates the system. Members must remain in the system if they want to be ‘safe,’ or to stay ‘on good terms’ with God, or not to be viewed as wrong or ‘backslidden.’
The second factor that brings about misplaced loyalty is the use of ‘scare tactics.’ For example:
God is going to withdraw His Spirit from you and your family.
God will destroy your business.
Without our protection, Satan will get your children.
You and your family will come under a curse.The third method of calling forth misplaced loyalty is the threat of humiliation. This is done by publicly shaming, exposing, or threatening to remove people from the group.
In the abusive system, it is the fear of being exposed, humiliated or removed that insures your proper allegiance, and insulates those in authority. You can be ‘exposed’ for asking too many questions, for disobeying the unspoken rules, or for disagreeing with authority. People are made public examples in order to send a message to those who remain. Others have phone campaigns launched against them, to warn their friends and others in the group about how ‘dangerous’ they are.” (p.76,77)
7. Secretive “When you see people in a religious system being secretive —watch out. People don’t hide what is appropriate; they hide what is inappropriate.” (p.78)
“One reason spiritually abusive families and churches are secretive is because they are so image conscious. People in these systems can’t even live up to their own performance standards, so they have to hide what is real. Some believe they must do this in order to protect God’s good name. So how things look and what others think becomes more important than what’s real. They become God’s ‘public relations agents.’ The truth is, He’s not hiring anyone for this position.” (p.78)
If these comments sound eerily like the were written directly about the WTS, they aren't. They are merely characteristics of spiritually abusive groups.
If you see yourself in such a group, leave quickly and take your family with you.
Blondie
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free2beme
Victim to me is a state of mind. I do not feel victimized, I am a concurring hero. I learned some wonderful things in the religion about life, both good and bad, and lived to tell about it and moved on to something wonderful. I have never felt or seen Witnesses as victims. I did something millions have not yet been able to accomplish, I broke free. Now if someone is a victim of sexual abuse, that is a victim and I know there is a group of former Witnesses who are in a victims support groups for that. That is different/
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DannyHaszard
This is what one looks like
