Did you ridicule apostates for attacking the Org. and not Bible doctrine?.

by Wasanelder Once 19 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Wasanelder Once

  When I was a busy little Pie-in-ear we had a local apostate who would come and pretend to be interested. He always attacked Russell and Rutherford and the early organization. (This was in the late 80's early 90's) After he left, the young brother with me said, "These apostates always attack the imperfect organization but never can show anything from the Bible. The organization is imperfect, they can always find fault with that, but not the Truth from the Bible." I remember thinking that there must be something to that because that's all he would do, attack the Society.

  It didn't help that the young man wore black fingernail polish and had hair dyed dark black and wore very tight clothing. He wore eye makeup and was very feminine. The young brother ridiculed that after he left. I stood up for him, basically saying that he must be searching for a way to live, this is probably his latest incarnation. Maybe he'll find one thats healthy. You'd think I'd shaken hands with the devil after I said that.

  The question is, did you ridicule apostates for attacking the Org. and not the Bible doctrines we taught?

  W.Once
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  misspeaches

  I only ever encountered one 'apostate' when I was in.

  A guy in our congregation.

  However he didn't attack the org. Instead he started reading the bible and researching it etc and trying to tell people what he was learning.

  Before long though he started finding prophecies in the bible as well! He'd be out door to door telling people about his prophecies... It didn't take long for him to get disphellowshipped!
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  carla

  My jw does. However if you bring up bible doctrine it always turns back to the org because their entire doctrines are based upon the org and its 'unique' interpretations. So round and round you go. The hypocricy is that they expect you to examine your faith and its history but cannot do the same. They ask you to do something they are not willing to do themselves.

  True Christians are not or should not be fearful of looking at or reading other faiths writings. If something was truly evil or demon inspired it should have no effect upon a Christian as carved idols would not have any effect either. Looking at an idol or even admiring the artistry of it should not affect ones faith at all. I still am suprised at the jw view of demons or evil being attributed to material man made items. The power items and special days have over jws makes them look pagan to me. Shouldn't they have more faith in a higher power? Their god seems so small.
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  nicolaou

  Being a 'good' JW I never listened to anything apostates had to say, whether at the conventions or in print. Of course, that didn't stop me from ridiculing them it's just that I did it from a position of ignorance, intolerance and blind prejudice.

  I was scared of apostates, the WT had done a good job on me, and yet . . . . . here I am Watchtower!

  Nic'
  [bemoaning the lack of a 'giving the finger' emoticon]
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  blondie

  Actually, I never talked to apostates until I got online. Before that I talked to a couple that asked questions, carefully selected questions I realize now to make me examine my own beliefs using only the scriptures.

  I found that there was nothing to support the WT teaching that Jesus was Michael, the archangel. Just a lot of "apparentlys" "from this we can sees" etc. Looking up another one on a prophecy from Daniel, I found that the WTS had at least 3 different interpretations but acted as if there was only one, the most recent one.

  That seed germinated and grew making me look things up using the index, to see what the history was of a teaching. I started buying older WT publications and reading and the capper was getting a computer and getting on the internet.

  So I firmly believe to use the Bible and the WTS own words to hang them high.

  Blondie
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  Joe Grundy

  An outsider's view:

  Any organisation where the figurehead lays itself open to ridicule will suffer, be that a religion, political party, government, etc.

  But WTBTS (and not only them) put themselves squarely in the firing line because of their claims to be 'inspired' 'directed' 'God's only channel' etc. (And yes, I am aware of J R Brown's latest 'doublespeak' a la Orwell's '1984', but that doesn't negate their claims of the last 100 years, does it?).

  In another thread I just started here ('Intelligent Analysis') I mention to need to critically assess both the source of the information and the information itself before coming to an opinion. As an (over the top) example: if a drunken beggar approached you in the street, asked you for money, and told you of a 'wonderful investment', you'd probably ignore it. If your long-time and proven successful financial adviser called you with an opportunity, you'd probably hear him out.

  With my limited knowledge, my instinct would be to treat the WTBTS like the drunk and value the information accordingly.

  It's WTBTS who have given the organisation the status it has (or which they wish it had), and claimed that the information should be accepted because it is the WTBTS that is providing it. WTBTS cannot now complain (but it probably will) if people now question or reject the information because they reject, or question, the WTBTS itself.

  IMHO.
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  serendipity

  Hi Wasanelderonce, I don't recall ridiculing apostates. I remember being amused by the ones I saw protesting in front of the convention center, thinking "they're wasting their time, no one would approach them here."
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  New Worldly Translation

  Apostates always interested me but I never dared delve any deeper into what they were saying. I remember thinking at DC's when they were outside with placards 'I wonder what their gripe is? surely if the religion isn't for you, you just go and do something else rather then picketing assembly halls'. Oh the náivité!
  I think the majority of JW's I knew thought it was all down to '75 (a simplistic view to say the least). Some people had sympathy with them in that regard, my family included. It irked them that for many years the org flatly denied saying anything about '75 when it was plainly in their literature.

  An intelligent, respected brother at my old hall used to collect and read apostate literature, purely for research purposes he said and to refute their claims. Over a period of years he got divorced, the family broke up, daughter ended up in drugs and he suffered a massive stroke leaving him a semi-invalid. A lot of the brothers blamed all this on the apostate literature he had in the house and it frightened people off reading apostate lit. or anything critical of the org, it certainly frightened me.
  They could have been right though about the lit causing the stroke, I mean reading all the lies, scandals and cover-ups of the org while at the same time trying to rationale the facts against the opaque statements of the org and trying to keep your religion is enough to give anyone an aneurism.
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  wednesday

  I never looked at apostate material until I had already left, ie stopped attending meetings. Also, I clearly recall stopping the preaching work many years ago .I refused to bring another soul into this org. It had hurt me so badly, I wouldn't be responsible for it hurting anyone else. It was ony after I had clearly stopped attending meetings that I found sites on the net. These sites have helped me a lot.

  The only thing I recall about apostates is they picketed our conventions. I sadly recall one woman pleading with me to talk to her. I wanted to, but looked down and went on. It is just too risky for any jws to talk to an apostate in open plain view. If I had known where to get material quietly, I might have done it. but I had no connections, so coudn't risk being seen looking for this material.
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  M.J.

  With my limited knowledge, my instinct would be to treat the WTBTS like the drunk and value the information accordingly.

  There's the problem. When your experience with the WTS is what you know from 3rd party sources (e.g., the Internet), it makes perfect sense to fit the WTS into the role of the drunk.

  When you actually jump onto the WTS express train, you don't see "the information". All you "see" is what you personally experience through the local authority figures and fellow members, and the constant stream of finely crafted "food" from the head office.