was there U.S. involvement?

by teejay 14 Replies latest jw friends

teejay

Hello, Amazing.
Your thread To Angry to Say Much is the first post I've read today since getting home from work. I found it on page four. As I type this, Senator Daschle has just made the statement on ABC TV that the world has "fundamentally changed" since the events of yesterday. After watching TV yesterday and seeing what I saw, I could not see how the world, especially the U.S., could remain the same. It's a big fear that I own now, if not for me, for my daughter. I fear that she will not know the America I grew up in.
Yesterday, here on the board, someone mentioned a possible conspiracy behind both the bombing in Oklahoma City and New York City, perhaps involving the U.S. government. You disagreed, going so far as to say that even the 'illuminati' were a figment of people's imagination, or something like that. I'm not certain what I believe, but whatever it is, it's not set in stone.
I will admit that on the day of the bombing in Oklahoma City, I found it an odd coincidence that after the bomb went off at 9 a.m., by five that afternoon McVeigh was in custody as the prime suspect. Being a conspiracy buff, I wondered, even then, what underlying scheme might be in place other than just one or two men being mad at the government and deciding to blow up a building -- who might prosper over such a tragedy. The local yokel policeman who stopped McVeigh for an expired car tag was either very lucky or something else was going on. Personally, I don't rule out anything.
I'm sure you know about the theory, true or not, that in order to hasten isolationist America's entry into WWII, the upper echelons of the U.S. government (up to and perhaps including even the President) was aware of but silent about the Japanese planes as they flew toward Pearl Harbor in early December, 1941. There are similar theories about the Kennedy assassination, the Vietnam War, and on and on.
Based on all of this, I would like your opinion on a serious question if you would consider a 'what-if':
Suppose a shadowy element of the U.S. government is involved with the catastrophe in NYC in some way, if only in that they knew something about it in advance and said nothing.
What would be the reason?
Whose agenda do you think would best be served by such a calamity?
bigboi

Teejay:
Suppose a shadowy element of the U.S. government is involved with the catastrophe in NYC in some way, if only in that they knew something about it in advance and said nothing.
What would be the reason?
I can't think of one honestly. I remember reading on a response thread on some other site that the government might have framed Tim McVeigh to discredit the Militia movement that was gaining impetus back then. The poster cited some stats he had that showed that militia activity was down significantly since Oklahoma City. I don't buy it though.
Whose agenda do you think would best be served by such a calamity?
The American government is a very complex entity. The representatives who serve in it are elected. Therefore it's hard to say exactly how anyone of them could benefit for any significant amount of time since anything could happen at anytime that could prevent them from serving. Elections change politics more than any terrorist activity does, because it normally is not of the scale that we have recently witnessed.
ONE....
bigboi
"life's a bitch a with a g-string and a twelve pack of Busch."
peacepipe

My theory would be maybe someone on the inside is trying to sabatoge George Bush, and seeing him fall on his face in this mess would probably do the job. This person(s) would have agenda's with other outside "neutral" countries. Money would be involved and the culprit would probably never be suspected. Someone who always seems to get off things scotch free.
Though that is just a hypothetical theory.
teejay

Bigboi,
The representatives who serve in it are elected.
True, but much of the infrastructure of the government isn't but stays in place when administrations come and go. Most notably the military. Also, much of the people Dubya has chosen to govern with him have been fixtures in D.C. for decades. Many of them served with Bush, Sr.
I don't know... it's just a thought. The rational part of me says "No way in hell." But I also know that the country (those in leadership positions) hasn't always been on the up and up, if you know what I mean. My daughter will be an old woman and maybe she'll hear something about what happened way back in " the fall of oh-one."
I can hear her now... "i was little and my daddy used to tell me about how free people used to be back then..."
holla
FiveShadows

you said:
<<
Suppose a shadowy element of the U.S. government is involved with the catastrophe in NYC in some way, if only in that they knew something about it in advance and said nothing.
What would be the reason?
Whose agenda do you think would best be served by such a calamity?>>
Well personally (and i say this with an open mind) Look at what's going on in the world...Yassar is giving blood...so are the russians..germans are showing sympathy...everyone is being united sort to speak... i mean it troubles me greatly that innocent people's lives were lost. This was NOT God's doing by any way...and i'm sure God himself is highly offended that jw's are saying "i was at the meeting and i gave glory to Jehovah" ...it's as if they're saying "Jehovah" is responsible for the death of innocent people, and that is the reason in which they give glory. How is that different from the people in palestine...that are on the streets saying "God is great" and passing out candy? That is so offensive and insulting towards God. Anyhow that's my opinion in regards that...i pray for everyone involved and encourage everyone to pray as well. i will be donating whatever i can to help out and hope people do the same. but to answer your questions above...it just seems that it's "uniting" the world...as a one world. I wouldn't be suprized if microchips are registered next week or something. Anyhow...i could be totally wrong and the USA has nothing to do with this and it's totally and only saddam and osama's doing, and they alone set this up. But i wouldn't throw out the possibility of the USA's involvement with them. I rarely believe anything our "president" says. Anyhow...i've said enough...my prayers are with everyone, jw or not...injured or not...involved or not.
FiveShadows
Lindy

"Whose agenda do you think would best be served by such a calamity?"
There is a lot of talk on this. When in college today we discussed this in a couple classes. I spoke with a couple other people on this and this is the gist of what I am hearing.
The date was 9/11. Mass emergency number, 911. The day is supposedly almost to the minute from the 3 months since McViegh's execution. The A.T. F. that nailed Mcviegh were based in the towers. There is talk that the address of the building was somehow significant. The airplanes were filled with fuel, the same as what destroyed the OK building, as a bomb. "They" say that in the OK disaster it involved a "third man", one that got away. He was supposedly a highly trained military figure (and still in the military) with the knowledge to pull of the OK bombing, olive skinned with dark hair.. It is said that Mcviegh and his accomplise were not smart enough to pull this off by themselves. It is also said that this OK bombing was done in the speculation that the Arabs would be targeted for the blame and that the US would end up destroying them for the crime. They, the group affiliated with these three, wanted the Arabs destroyed. But the plan backfired and it was taken as internal terrorism instead. Due to his postion and olive skin and dark hair, it is said that the "third man" infiltrated the Arab countries and saying he hated Americans and wanted to use his skills to help the Arabs. His true motive though was to use his skills to train these people, including how to fly the planes, and help them carry out a terrorist act on the US so that the US would relatiate and destroy the Arabs, carrying forth the original plan.
Part of the problem is that people feel that the US agents knew this. There are many social control agents through out this country and in this world keeping an eye on things such as the many counter culture groups, which are groups that are a threat to the US. Sooo where we these agents all this time this stuff was taking form and how did this man and his counter group slip through their fingers? They didn't! These agents allowed this to happen it is said, because the US is on the verge of a recesion/depression. How do you get out of this? A war! A war rebuilds the economy.
Did Bush know? Not necessarily. He may have known that something was afoot but not what, or where. There was a lot of military movement the last few days before the disaster.Lots of people saw military moving on the interstates all over. A lot of people placed into position for some reason. Moved aroung and told they were on "maneuvers", nothing unusal. The talk is that the government, internally, knew something was going to happen within a certain time frame and they were preparing just in case. But only a select few knew more than that.
Notice Bush, the V. President, Collin Powell and other significant people were far form the sites that were hit. Coincidence? Who knows. There is more but I smply can't remember it all.
I know it is speculation/theory right now, but that is all there is at this time. It may be hard to believe that our country would participate in this but given past history it is not difficult to grasp. The American people have been deliberatley kept in the dark for many, many things, so these things unfortunatley aren't a wild as some might think. History proves it can be.
I want to know how that plane in PA was so destroyed that it was almost dust on the ground and how it created such a huge crater, not typical of a "crash landing". Were they shot down like so many said? Where are the other "confirmed" hijacked planes that were in the air. NOTHING is being said of that. But the news said that the government confirmed eight highjacked planes, yet only have accounted for 4 officially.
We may never know it all and may have to accept that. Time will tell. I just hope it doesn't get any worse, but I fear it will, I don't see an end in sight yet.
Lindy
DannyBear

I sat transfixed watching all the events transpire. I can't even add another "my God" to the whole thing. It is a nightmare.
I will add this one thing, that really caught my attention. I stayed tuned msnbc most of the day. Just one comment was made, about the reason for Pres Bush being out of town, the statement was made live, that they had suspicion of some sort of terrorist activity, directed toward the President.
I never heard this statement repeated. But if Iam not completely daft, I heard it.
Anybody else hear these same words?
Danny
SixofNine

Yes Danny, they said that they felt there was a threat to AF-1 and the white-house yesterday. This was in response to criticism (stupid) that the pres had stayed away too long.
I am amazed that some of you mentally ill people actually function in society. Stupid freaks. Btw, danny, that is not directed at you. So long as you stay away from mentally ill paranoia.
COMF

I am amazed that some of you mentally ill people actually function in society.
Six, I have to loan you the tee shirt my son gave me last time we got together. On the front it says, "God must really love stupid people. He made so many of you."
DannyBear

Six,
Thanks for the 'stupid' remarks, never want to think some stranger on this medium, may have that impression, my my I might not get any sleep.
No I followed exactly what happened to AF-1, and also noted the stupid comments from Dan Quail, who opened his mouth and inserted his foot, mouthing off that the Pres should immediately return to Washington. That was stupid, in view of what you in fact mentioned.
Now that I must be more articulate about the timing of the statement I refer to, I will say this: The reference to the fact that GWB was out of the Washington area, was made before any of the discussion about any 'security actions' taken in rerouting AF-1.
Now smart guy, does that relieve your angst, does that now allow you to rest more easy about my, suggested mental state? I hope so, god what would I do, thinking that Six was put in such a quandry, and so upset about someone he has addressed about five sentenances to in the last 6 months?
DannyBear

was there U.S. involvement?

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