by Confession 34 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse
I have read more info about this and I believe I read it on this borad. At any rate, somewhere out in cyberspace,there is some info about this, and what i read sounded rather convincing.
B/c of the way children and women were treated generally, I don't find it at all unusal that we may find out some of these 80-90 elders may have some real skeltons in their closet.
I started this thread because I had read of the accusation. My interest was to find out what, in fact, was the case. I see now that we only have the accusation of one person--and that person is dead. If it is true that there were two other witnesses, it would certainly be good to get their testimony as to this alleged abuse. I'm told that at one time they had declined coming forward. Perhaps they will change their minds.
I haven't always agreed with every point made in this forum about pedophilia, but I have detected--at least in the past--a clear reluctance on the part of the Governing Body to provide disclosure about all of the sad cases of child sexual abuse. This has resulted in terrible things happening to many young people over and over again, and sometimes to the shunning of those who try to report to law enforcement. The idea that someone(s) at the top of this organization were themselves child predators may provide an explanation as to these policies.
I never meant to give credence to an unsubstantiated claim. But if it's true that two living individuals may indeed have information on this subject--as to its being true or false--it seems the responsible thing to seek their testimony.
hs-I thought Pat was talking about some local guy from her congo. In the video she mentions the GB, WOW.
Confession - Sounds like a nice research project fer you. Maybe you can start with her family, if they'll
talk. Good Luck!
After receiving a spam PM, I'll say again: I don't know what did or didn't happen to Pat Garza. She has left this plane of existence and I truly wish her nothing but peace and joy. God knows she deserved it. I respect her too much to use her in the shameless way others have. Frankly it is disgusting.
I've made my own accusations and statements regarding my own abuse and the men and women who used me for their pleasure, and nothing would have angered me, or nauseated me more than for some stranger to use my pain to further their own agenda.
Let the poor woman rest in peace.
In the words of a similiar intellect to mine: "That's all I have to say about that."
Hi, Tex...
I've made my own accusations and statements regarding my own abuse and the men and women who used me for their pleasure, and nothing would have angered me, or nauseated me more than for some stranger to use my pain to further their own agenda.
Let the poor woman rest in peace.
It is perhaps because I was never the victim of sexual abuse that I'm having trouble understanding the above. So let me just ask, "If there are two men who may be witnesses to gross child sexual abuse, why might it be wrong to hope they will come forward?"
I for one am not whatsoever interested in skewering someone for something they didn't do--as part of a personal "agenda." If it's false, it's false. But from the audio I have heard, Pat seemed very passionate about this. How would trying to locate these individuals be exploitative to her?
I don't understand, "Let the poor woman rest in peace." If you, while alive, worked so hard to bring something to light, wouldn't it be frustrating and sad to know that others just let it go after you died?
I present the above with the utmost respect for your personal experiences. Just trying to understand.
Confession
Howdy Confession.
So let me just ask, "If there are two men who may be witnesses to gross child sexual abuse, why might it be wrong to hope they will come forward?"
I don't mean to split hairs but I do not believe that 2 eyewitnesses are necessary, nor should be required, to 'prove' a child was abused. It's this teaching that directly led to my departure from Jehovah's Witnesses.
Having said that, and for the sake of discussion, let's say there are other victims of Jarecz. Of course I would have no objection to them coming forward. In recovery from abuse, assigning blame for the trauma is an important part of the healing process. I made the mistake of focusing so much on the data of my abuse (who did what and where and when, etc.) that I wasted a few years in therapy.
But confronting the offender should not be the main focus, and actually is generally done more toward the end of therapy if at all. It's much more important for the victim of abuse to deal with the tremendous emotional damage, most often anger, and its flip side, fear. Very often victims have tremendous shame issues as well. These negative emotions are often at such an extreme that it affects the victim's life, often causing depression, affecting their job or perhaps even suicidal ideations. Many victims use drugs and/or alcohol to numb the pain they feel.
There's nothing "wrong" with confronting the offender (whether publically or not). As I say it is sometimes needed for the victim to fully recover. I did, and it helped my sense of reality to hear from relatives who were able to confirm the fragmented memories I had to that point. In interviewing various relatives I discovered 2 others who shared the same offender with me (my grandfather). However they were adamant that I never reveal what they told me. They did not want to come forward publically and I respected their decision. It's very very difficult to say out loud what was done to you, as you realize how people will react to you. The reactions aren't as bad now as they were 20 years ago when I stepped out, but it's still a helluva thing to do.
I for one am not whatsoever interested in skewering someone for something they didn't do--as part of a personal "agenda."
No I don't think you are either, and if I gave you that impression, please accept my apologies. You're asking questions, and there's nothing wrong with that at all.
I never spoke with Pat Garza and I have no personal information about her experience one way or the other. I choose to believe something hideous happened to her. I have heard a couple of stories about Jarecz before but that doesn't mean much.
How would trying to locate these individuals be exploitative to her?
In the abstract, it's not necessarily exploitative. I am very uncomfortable with a certain Internet group parading around people's stories. They say they want to "expose" the WTS, but in my opinion it is disrespectful to use the pain a victim endured without the person's permission for the group's own ends, or agenda. I've seen one of their lists that had my father in law's name on it (he killed himself after 40 years in the Witnesses). I'm sorry, but it's just not right. Now if someone wanted to use their own experience, well okay, but that should be their call. I just don't like the way they conduct themselves.
One of the things I learned in therapy is that, at some point, you've got to let the experience go, almost like releasing it. I'm not saying don't talk about it. I have many times. I'm a survivor of abuse. It happened to me, but that abuse doesn't define me.
But holding on to it, leads to bitterness and can just destroy you. Recovery is a very personal journey and every victim reaches it differently, in different ways and times. Sexual abuse is a hideous crime, that most of the time leaves no scar for the world to see. All the scars are emotional, and internal.
As I say, I never met Pat Garza, but it was clear she was a woman who was in great pain. That alone is enough for me to believe that something horrible happened to her. Now the details, I can't say and it's not my place to say. But to use that pain is something I cannot be a part of. It is because of that pain, I think we should let her be in peace. I don't know, I just think it's more respectful to someone who's gone now. But that's me.
I've no problem with investigating Jarecz, he means nothing to me, and if he is an offender, then there are almost certainly other victims. It is very common for an offender to have multiple victims. And if so, then I hope he's tried in court and convicted. He'd deserve it.
Paron my ramblings here, my thoughts are somewhat jumbled on this subject. Bottom line is I just don't like to see whatever happened to Pat Garza being used now that's she has passed on. Sorry, that's just how I feel.
Be well,
Chris
Big Tex - I'm sorry for your pain, even from your own "flesh & blood".
16 years agoMy wife and I went to the Silent Lambs march in NY. I have a video of the march that includes the acusation.
Quote: "An apostate I know from the olden days (kicked out with the Franz mess) also says he was a pretty decent sort, especially compared with Knorr or Franz. Didn't he serve in Australian Bethel a while? Maybe somebody from down under can confirm on both."
As a young man (a long time ago now). I met Jarasz, on my second contact with the Jws. I had received an invitation to a Public Talk from a witness doing street work, and decided to go. I was late (the talk was half over) but after the meeting (which for some reason T.J. was there) I was introduced to him. I found him polite, but hardly friendly, in fact rather stiff and cold. I don't think he was impressed with my buzz haircut and seagull printed casual shirt.
It was also suggested that, I study the bible with a young brother (who later went to Gilead). This young guy's family were good friends with Jarasz, and I saw him quite a lot at their home and my first impression remained. I think he may have suffered from migraine headaches. (So long ago, I cant recall it all clearly).
Since the jw's were banned during WW2, I was told that things had become commercialised during that time (the WTS - under other names, taking on all sorts of work in order to get some income) and Jarasz had been sent out by Brooklyn to straighten it all out.
What is the point of raking over old unsubstantiated accusations when all the parties are long dead and nothing more is going to come out now?
