I fear you were simply the object of thier pioneer hour buildup. I'm sure they were behind a bit before you locked horns with them. Now they are all caught up.
W.Once
Couple of JW Sisters came to my door - mini rumble
by Qcmbr 29 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Shawn10538
Just in case I don't get back to this post for a while, and even though I haven't any actual verification that Qcmbr is actually a member of LDS (every bit as much a cult as JWs in my humble opinion), I do commend her for using critical thinking directed at other people, but, I challenge her to go stand in the mirror and be just as harsh and scrutinizing on her own faith as she is on JWs.
Critical thinking skills are practically useless if you can't apply them three dimensionally in every direction. If you spare yourself, or even God himself, from the heat of harsh scientific and journalistic inquiry, your skills are confined to advancing others out of the darkness, but you are not progressing and evolving yourself.
From my minimal exposure to LDS, attending the meetings a few times, reading a few books for and against and dating two members (not at the same time) I have seen the exact thought stopping, self deception and self manipulation processes being used in both churches. In some areas, I find LDS to be so absolutely ridiculous that I roll over laughing that grown people can actually believe that stuff.
ANNOUNCEMENT: To any LDS member, I have a gold plate, love potion, cure-all tonic, a bridge and property in Florida to sell you. It costs 2,000,000 dollars for one peep at the gold plate. You believe I have it don't you? DON'T YOU? Well, if there is any consistency to the LDS process of how they come to believe what they believe, I just gained 10 million followers world wide, because the whole thing is based on believing something JUST BECAUSE SOME WEIRDO POTION SELLING SHINANIGAN SAID SO! I mean, there is literally ZERO evidence in the whole universe that backs up the Smith story. ZZZZEEERRRROOOO.!!!!!!!!!
So, I'll be expecting all Mormons to show up at my door because they are literally THAT GULLIBLE! I could go on for hours on this thing. Suffice it to say that for a Mormon to look down on a JW, is the pot calling the kettle black. OOps did I say black? Coincidentally, Mormons shared their views on black people with JWs, that blacks were going to turn white some day, if I'm not mistaken, correct me if I am, but it took Mormons about 40 years longer to suddenly have a revelation that blacks could become members. Even the civil rights movement desegregated the South 15 years before Mormons accepted blacks. So, if you can be a Mormon, you have no business poking fun at JWs, Scientologists, flying saucer cults, David Koresh, Heaven's Gate and the one true religion - The Sanata Claus Cult.
Laughing OUT LOUD AT ALL MORMONS!!!
Slapping my knee uproariously at the sheer stupidity of their magic potion religion.
Wishing I had the charisma J. Smith had to convince a bunch of country hicks in New York in the 1800s (now those people had the process of scientific inquiry down! Man they were a tough sell I bet!) that he could stick his head in a bag and use magic spectacles to read an ancient Egyptian script, and when caught at his deception (being unable to repeat the revelation to his friend who was writing as he spoke) he came up with a story that God was angry and punoished them by not revealing the first reading a second time. And now we'll never know what those first readings said. (Weep.)
If you can believe that, you can believe ANYTHING!!!! Read the book of Mormon for yourself and see how absolutely comical it is. The only other books that come close to its stupidity are the Bible and the Koran. But definitely, with third or fourth grade critical thinking ability one should be able to totally dismantle the mormon faith.
Sad that 10 million adults actually buy into that mess.
Shawn -
Qcmbr
Fair points Shawn but remember for me (a true blue LDS - inculcated from birth) this wasn't poking fun at the JWs it was actually a deadly serious conversation upon which eternal destinies hang. I had to keep the conversation on an even keel between hard and informed questions and bridgebuilding on common experiences because they would have cut and run if I'd just gone all out. I also wasn't trying to trip them up or fool them but to force a critical analysis and thought process because I totally agree that the vast majority of believers and non-believers don't raise their thinking beyond their accepted worldview during discussions and I include myself in that generalisation. I love it when someone, respectfully, asks the deep , uncomfortable, thought provoking challenges that force me to look way beyond zombie like acceptance.
In any other life I would agree that religion and the LDS faith is just speculative storytelling, pretending to answers from a reservoir of common wisdom wrapped up in magic fairytales but I find myself unable to deny that I believe in Jesus Christ and also in the existence of a restored church and in the fulfillment of prophecy.
1/ I've seen freaky (some would call supernatural things) that I wouldn't want to see again.
2/ I've had stunning answers to prayer.
3/ I've see people healed.
4/ I have read / analysed / pulled apart / confronted the awful possibility of error and I am unable to find a sustainable gap in the core philosophy and doctrines of christianity and the brand of it that is LDS. Feel free to 'help' me find a gap but don't just paste website addresses - I want real personal arguments that prove the errancy of these things (i.e. picking on something and enlarging it out of context as the sole reason for something being wrong doesn't do much more than start a discussion to me - I want to understand beyond personal incredulity why such and such cannot be correct)
5/ I find modern day events absolutely in line with prophecy (in particular the return of Israel and the creation of a state that didn't exist for roughly 2000 years.)
6/ I have read new scripture and listened to living prophets and I find they speak as I would expect, they act as I expect them to act and they say what I would expect them to say - they are the real deal as far as I can see (unlike many other religious leaders that leave me scratching my head trying to understand what they are really saying as opposed to what they seem to be saying.)
I'm not trying to prove the LDS faith to anyone here - I'm just trying to let you know how difficult it is for me to agree that the LDS faith is actually nutty and laughable, I find it absolutely right on all areas that affect my life and even were I to leave the church I can't think of any other lifestyle I'd actually want - I'm not hankering after anything more - at the risk of tempting a thunder strike I'm happy. As a final point I am still going through a crisis of faith and its triggers I've documented but its roots are based in the lack of more of the above proofs(i.e why does LDS faith not take a central role in politics, why do the leaders try and make friends with other religions and so move away from the seriousness of the debate, what will happen to raise the church into real prominence and beyond a side cult of 12 million.) My crisis is pretty cool though as it means I'm moving, my comfort zone is all jiggly and I'm interested to see where I end up - thus far though I'm(obviously) still a fired up Morm. -
LDH
I'm just trying to let you know how difficult it is for me to agree that the LDS faith is actually nutty and laughable,
Having grown up in Upstate NY, near Palmyra and the Hill Cumorah pageant, well never mind, I won't be rude and say it...but you know what I'm thinking!
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Finally-Free
A couple of them just came to my door a few minutes ago - first time in the 3 years I've been here. I'm surprised they don't have me down as a do-not-call.
I don't have the patience to get into a discussion with them. First I asked them if they were Jehovah's Witnesses. When they said 'yes' I simply said, "I don't want to be involved with a cult that protects pedophiles" and shut the door.
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mavie
Whenever I ran into someone like you I just told them "I have to do this or they will disfellowship me, my wife will leave me and my children will never speak with me again".
LOL!
I did that at least once with Elder/Pioneer D. right next to me but he didn't understand as he was still learning the language. Kept the same stupid grin on his face even after I explained to the homeowner that he (the Elder) was my retarded older brother.
ROFL!
Some people just don't want to wake up/can't wake up or think for themselves. I suspect there are many who would not leave the JW's if presented with a 'smoking gun'.
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willyloman
I'm surprised they stayed for that long.
You were probably the most interesting "call" they'd had in months!
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RachelHall
Good questions....I would have ask...Do you need to go to the meetings to be saved by God's son Jesus Christ? Regardless of their answer....God's word doesn't say we need to worship in any particular place or go to any meeting to build one another up.
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Shawn10538
What about all the false prophcies of the Mormons, like "All Native Americans will be converted one day." I suppose LDS did their part in converting them by slaughtering so many of them, maybe they converted in the after life? But, from what I see, the diverse Native Americans are having a renaissance of their tribal religions which are non-Christian. Never met a single LDS Native American, though I'm sure there are some. Also, why are Mormons so pumped up patriotic and willing to kill fellow Mormons in other countries should war break out. This well established fact kind of puts the Mormon allegiance in the political realm, not the spiritual realm...
Have you gone to the mirror yet?
No, I'm not joling around or trying to be funny. None of this stuff is really funny (though I may be laughing) when it comes to lying and deceiving millions of people...
Sincerely,
Shawn -
Qcmbr
What about all the false prophcies of the Mormons, like "All Native Americans will be converted one day."
Hmm - I'll go look this one up! Honestly hadn't actually seen this.
I suppose LDS did their part in converting them by slaughtering so many of them, maybe they converted in the after life?
?????? Which history book are you reading?
But, from what I see, the diverse Native Americans are having a renaissance of their tribal religions which are non-Christian. Never met a single LDS Native American,
My adopted cousins in Alberta are...
Also, why are Mormons so pumped up patriotic and willing to kill fellow Mormons in other countries should war break out.
At the risk of being very,very rude - you are referring to the US Mormons??. Worldwide most Mormons, as are most people, are not 'pumped' about war anywhere (well I'll make an exception for some extremists who are going nuts in the Middle East). If war does break out though you may well find Mormons, Humanists, Catholics, Born Agains, Pagans and those who don't profess any god on both sides of any conflict. Pacifism is very noble but is utterly powerless and ugly once conflict starts - there is no record of God ever sparing/helping a pacifist people. I'll honour my great grandfather who died for this country so I could be free before I pay respects to those who stayed at home through choice.
This well established fact kind of puts the Mormon allegiance in the political realm, not the spiritual realm...
Is this bad? One thing that the LDS faith pushes very strongly is that this life is real, it is ours and what we do with it is up to us. If we want to pollute our world, go to war, enact laws and so forth that is our right and standing on the sideline like the pharisees tutting and pretending that society is nothing to do with us is just a false reading of the bible by those who don't want to make efforts for and on behalf of their neighbours. Jesus was as political as you get. In the meantime the LDS (along with the rest of people who care enough to share their time and views) will encourage democracy (voting), school boards, military service, encourage political engagement (a 'good' man/woman in power can do great things while allowing a 'bad' person into power does things like the gas chambers at Auschwitz) and generally to spread a positive influence throughout the neighbourhood by taking part in all things secular, political and religious.