As many of you know, the Bible text at Luke 21:8 has become a major issue for me. I decided that it would be proper to do some more in depth research of the text, as well as the words contained in the text. This is all going to be complied and put togeather in a letter that I am going to send to the society.
NOW BEFORE any of you say 'why are you going to even bother' let me remind you that I still have extended family in the organization. I want to make my points about the organzations faults more of my own, that way if anything happens I can point to what I have researched and hand it over to my in-laws, which from knowing the type of people they are can garuntee that they would read whatever I have written.
I was wondering if anybody had some information regarding the Greek word 'Kairos', as is often found in the Bible. This is the word that appears in Luke 21:8 when Christ gives his warning not to follow anybody that says 'the due time has approached' or in Greek 'kairos'.
What i'm most looking for is in depth studies in greek that anybody may have access to. I've got all of your basic Bible concordance material on hand, but more in depth studies would be helpful.
So, if you can help me out, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks
-drew
Help with info on the Greek word 'Kairos'
by drew sagan 11 Replies latest watchtower bible
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drew sagan
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greendawn
In Greek kairos means time and the plural kairoi means times. I understand it could refer to a long period of time where a certain element would be predominant eg "oi kairoi ton ethnon" which means the times of the nations the period during which the nations will have predominance and dominate the world scene until the time of the divine kingdom arrives.
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Honesty
Why not use 5 official Watchtower publications and one Bible verse to bring their entire house of cards down?
They can't DF you as an apostate if you use WATCHTOWER literature that has WATCHTOWER figures in it.
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drew sagan
They can't DF you as an apostate if you use WATCHTOWER literature that has WATCHTOWER figures in it.
I have actually complied alot of WT stuff and it is amazing what I am finding. There actually is a place in the reasoning book where they try to say they arn't part of what this scripture says because they "never lost their sense of urgency". There is so much more in the publications it is amazing. I might even publish this when I am all through.
I'm sure Leolaia the ancient Encyclopedia will come in with some great info on this, where are you? -
Honesty
The "Faithful Discreet Slave" doctrine rests solely upon the date of Jerusalem's destruction by Nebuchadnezzar.
Show the following to the elders and ask them to do the math.
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According to the Watchtower publication "You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth" (WTBTS 1989) in Chapter 16, "God’s Government Begins Its Rule" pages 138-141 paragraphs 14-21 Jesus Christ began to rule as king of God’s heavenly government in 1914.
According to the Watchtower Society, Jesus inspected all organizations who claimed to represent Him shortly after He became enthroned as king in 1914:
WT 87 6/15 p. 10 A Time of Testing and Sifting
WT 87 6/15 p. 15 Testing and Sifting in Modern Times
Revelation- It's Grand Climax At Hand! chapter 27 page 183Jesus picked the modern-day Jehovah's Witnesses according to the Watchtower Society.
Using only literature published by the Watchtower Society and one scripture we can rather easily see the chronology regarding the destruction of Jerusalem.
There is really not much to learn here, either:
No astronomy, no neo-Babylonian tablets, and no confusing Bible versus will be presented. Just the names of five people and several quotes from Watchtower publications will be used. Also, there is no need to quibble over things like regnal years, ascension years, cardinal and ordinal numbers, etc. Remember, 607 B.C. is a full 20 years earlier than the accepted date of 586/87 B.C. and all the tinkering with a few months here and a few partial year reigns there cannot make up a difference of twenty years.Another tricky part to remember is that people were very primitive in those years before a sensible calendar that actually counts FORWARD as you go forward rather than BACKWARD as you go forward was incorporated.
We have to start AFTER the date of Jerusalem's fall with a date and event that is agreed upon by both the WTS and secular historians.From this date we will count backward by counting forward.
That date is 539 B.C., the date that Babylon fell to Cyrus the Mede.
Keep in mind we are trying to find the date Jerusalem fell.
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Insight on the Scriptures published by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society in volume 1 on page 425 under "Chaldea" has a complete list of the Babylonian kings from Nabopolassar to
Balshazzar:"Particularly was this domination manifest during the seventh and sixth centuries B.C.E. when Nabopolassar, a native of Chaldea, and his successors, Nebuchadnezzar II, Evil-merodach (Awil-Marduk), Neriglissar, Labashi-Marduk, Nabonidus, and Belshazzar, ruled the Third World Power, Babylon."
_______________________________________________________________Insight on the Scriptures published by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society in volume 2 on page 480 under "Nebuchadnezzar" tells us that he ruled as king for 43 years:Second ruler of the Neo-Babylonian Empire; son of Nabopolassar and father of Awil-Marduk (Evil-merodach), who succeeded him to the throne. Nebuchadnezzar ruled as king for 43 years...
_______________________________________________________________An article entitled, "The Rejoicing of the Wicked Is Short-lived" on page 29 in the January 1,1965 Watchtower magazine lists the regnal years of Nebuchadnezzar II's successors from Evil-Merodach to Nabonidus who, in this article the Watchtower confirms was ruler of Babylon when Cyrus conquered it in 539 B.C.:
Evil-merodach reigned two years and was murdered by his brother-in-law Neriglissar, who reigned for four years, which time he spent mainly in building operations. His underage son Labashi-Marduk, a vicious boy, succeeded him, and was assassinated within nine months. Nabonidus, who had served as governor of Babylon and who had been Nebuchadnezzar’s favorite son-in-law, took the throne and had a fairly glorious reign until Babylon fell in 539 B.C.E.
_______________________________________________________________Insight on the Scriptures published by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society in volume 2 on page 457 under "Nabonidus" tells us that he ruled some 17 years:
Last supreme monarch of the Babylonian Empire; father of Belshazzar. On the basis of cuneiform texts he is believed to have ruled some 17 years (556-539 B.C.E.). He was given to literature, art, and religion
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Let's summarize (remember we have to go backwards starting in 539 B.C. with Nabonidus):Nabonidus ruled Babylon for 17 years until it fell in 539 B.C. to Cyrus.
Labashi-Marduk ruled for 9 months.
Neriglissar ruled for 4 years.
Evil-Merodach ruled for 2 years.
Nebuchadnezzer ruled for 43 years.
17 years + 9 months + 4 years + 2 years + 43 years = 66 to 67 years.
Starting at 539 B.C. and going back 66/67 years we arrive at 605/606 B.C. for the start of the reign of Nebuchadnezzer.
2nd Kings 25:8-10 tells us that Jerusalem was destroyed in the 19th year of Nebuchadnezzer's reign, so if we go forward 19 years from 605/606 B.C. we will have the approximate years of the destruction of Jerusalem.
Nineteen years after 605/606 B.C. brings us to 586/587 B.C. which agrees with all secular evidence.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________That's it!
If the elders are honest, show them this:
Prove 607 B.C.E. as the date for Jerusalem's fall and you have proved the authority of the Governing Body of JW's.
Prove that 607 B.C.E. is not the date for Jerusalem's fall and you have just one of many apocalyptic doomsday religions that use fear and intimidation to maintain their authority and control over their followers.
You may have the privilege of helping some of them escape, too.
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TD
This would be a start:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/2/1153502529-3894.html
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WTFBBQPWNT
Drew, not sure of what you're specifically looking for in regards to kairos, but I'll offer some general comments about it.
It is of interest that kairos is used in scripture to denote a set time-frime for something. Like at Matthew 26:18, the Greek kairos is used when Jesus is talking about "the time appointed of my death". In other instances where "time" is used in it's common form, the Greek chronos is most likely used. So Jesus is obviously referring to people who would usurp the title of Messiah and claim "the time for Israel to be restored is here".
Hope that helped, or at least showed the contrast between the 2 usages of "time" in the scriptures.
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drew sagan
look at my post below
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drew sagan
Thanks for the links guys.
Here is the bigger picture as to what I am working on. Notice how the Watchtower defines the word Kairos:
*** w67 10/15 pp. 611-612 When Christ Comes in Kingdom Glory ***
MEANING OF THE GREEK WORD “TIMES”
The word “times” here used at Luke 21:24 comes from the Greek word kairos (plural, kairoi), which, according to one Greek authority, “signified a fixed or definite period, a season, sometimes an opportune or seasonable time.” Thus, kairos is used in the Scriptures with reference to the “harvest season,” “the season of the fruits,” and “the season of figs.”—Matt. 13:30; 21:34; Mark 11:13.
Interestingly, kairos is also used in connection with future times or occasions within God’s arrangement or ‘timetable,’ particularly as relates to Christ’s second presence and his kingdom. For example, the apostle Paul speaks of the “sacred secret” revealed by God “for an administration at the full limit of the appointed times [kairon], namely, to gather all things together again in the Christ.”—Eph. 1:9, 10; see also Acts 1:7 and 3:19.
So my arguement is that the WTS is guilty of getting people to follow them by proclaiming on the basis of a time table for christs second return or coming (however you want to belive it), Christ actually warned not to follow people that claimed the time for Christs return (kairos).