My local church has some pretty stringent child abuse policies that I know of for sure. Anyone having anything to do with minor children must have law enforcement background check(by the state or FBI)-this is also true with the local scouting organizations. In addition, our pastor is police chaplain and would NOT keep any such thing silent. He is also on the school board. If there was any questionable behavior in our church, there is a full ministry staff, and enough checks and balances that no such thing could be swept under the rug. Personal experience with the WT org is even when one is a victim, and the perp is NOT in the org., the victim will be marked. PATHETIC excuse for a policy if you ask me. They can't even stand behind a child in loving support, but treat them like tramps or liars. I wonder if 3rd Witness would like to see his child or wife treated in such a way-as if the elders were looking for an excuse to accuse them of promiscuity or adultery.
Does the Policy of the Watchtower Create a Safe Haven for Child Molesters?
by listen 149 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse
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Lady Lee
Aren't you all tired of debating a lost cause?
Do you really think 3W can be convinced of the errors he is making?
Way back on page 1 3W posted
What can the elders do to help protect our children? The elders should be alert to the activity of any who are known to have molested children in the past. Individuals who have manifested a weakness in this regard should be sensitive to their need not to be alone with children. They should refrain from holding children or displaying other forms of affection for them. It would be appropriate for elders to give kindly cautions to any who are doing things that may be a temptation or a cause for concern to others in the congregation.
It is pretty clear for any who want to be honest and consider the statement carefully. If others in the congregation are concerned about something the former molester is doing what should elders do? Reprove them for gossip? Df them for slander? No, that is not in the instructions from the WTS at all. It is quite the opposite. Any individual in the congregation who has 'cause for concern' for what a former molester may be doing would not be considered slanderous for bringing up those concerns and elders should handle those concerns according to the directives from WTS. The elders are not to just sluff the concerns off and call it gossip or slander and reprove or DF the person. And yet, that is what apostates will tell you.
This directive certainly makes it clear that persons could indeed be warned if a person was unknowingly putting children in harms way of a former child molester. It also makes it clear that anyone who had 'cause for concern' about what a molester was doing would not be reproved but rather the former molester as well as those he is coming in contact with would be warned and cautioned because of this 'cause for concern'.
3W jumps to a conclusion that just isn't there. This is a perfect example of JW illogic.
The quoted paragraph (#1) speaks to the issue of the molester and the elders. There is no where in that paragraph thet refers to others in the congregation.
- The elders should be alert to the activity of any who are known to have molested children in the past.
- So the elders can tell each other so they all know about past molestations
- Individuals who have manifested a weakness in this regard should be sensitive to their need not to be alone with children. They should refrain from holding children or displaying other forms of affection for them.
- The molesters should police themselves and stay away from children
- It would be appropriate for elders to give kindly cautions to any who are doing things that may be a temptation or a cause for concern to others in the congregation.
- Since it is only the elders who know about the past molestations they are the only ones who might "give kindly cautions" to the molestor.
So that is what the quote actually said but how did 3W respond? (paragraph 2 & 3)
- It is pretty clear for any who want to be honest and consider the statement carefully.
- So let's see how clear and honest 3W is.
- If others in the congregation are concerned about something the former molester is doing what should elders do?Reprove them for gossip? Df them for slander? No, that is not in the instructions from the WTS at all. It is quite the opposite. Any individual in the congregation who has 'cause for concern' for what a former molester may be doing would not be considered slanderous for bringing up those concerns and elders should handle those concerns according to the directives from WTS. The elders are not to just sluff the concerns off and call it gossip or slander and reprove or DF the person. And yet, that is what apostates will tell you.
- Nowhere in the quote does it refer to others in the congregation. 3W makes a leap and responds to something that is not there.
- Nowhere does it say "any individual who has 'cause for concern'" can bring up those concerns to the elders.
- Nowhere does it say they won't be accused of slander because they won't even know about it. Only the victim and possible close family and the elders will know.
- This directive certainly makes it clear that persons could indeed be warned if a person was unknowingly putting children in harms way of a former child molester.
- No it doesn't make it clear that others might be warned. The molester could be warned if the elders see something inappropriate
- It also makes it clear that anyone who had 'cause for concern' about what a molester was doing would not be reproved but rather the former molester as well as those he is coming in contact with would be warned and cautioned because of this 'cause for concern'.
- Same argument. The only ones who might have a "cause for concern" would be the elders because they would be the only ones to know.
Now as we all know elders do not follow these molesters around waiting to see if they will behave themselves. At best the molester can be monitored during the meetings and shortly before and after. That's it. Outside of the hall and meetings the molester is on his own and according to the first paragraph he is to monitor or police himself.
Well all of us who have been abused know how well that will work. The molester will just work harder at contuning the abuse and finding ways to keep his victims quiet. And since the victim who went to the elders in the first palce now knows he or she will get no help from the elders the child is more trapped than ever.
If you are trying to make 3W see the real truth - give it up.
If you are hoping to help a reader of this thread realize help can only be gotten outside the WTS and by going to the authorities then I think the point has been well made.
If you or someone you know is being sexually abused:
- Go to the police.
- Tell your family doctor.
- Tell a teacher
- Tell a social worker.
- Open your phone book and call the number for child protection services.
- And keep telling until you get the help you need
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Pistoff
IT MATTERS NOT WHAT THEY SAY IN THE ARTICLES!!
I have seen the hand written additions to the elders book that gives procedure for destroying records of child abuse for brother who is being made a servant; that is all I need to know.
GO BACK TO Bethel now, before we expose you. -
Big Tex
If you are trying to make 3W see the real truth - give it up
No I wasn't LL. I know better than to try to reason with pig-headed stubborness. People like this cannot be reasoned with as they are not interested in reason.
Instead I was much more interested in zeroing in on a couple of main points while trying to nail down thirdwitness into answering very specific and pointed questions that the Society refuses to answer. That he refused to answer was not at all surprising. He would have to acknowledge that the Society's simple answers for complex problems do not work in real life.
I was much more interested in directing the conversation toward anyone who might read the thread and even if it is only one person, be someone who was really questioning and who had real doubts. Read this thread with that mindset, even with a JW training and you'll come away having more questions and doubts than when you started.
If it's "the Truth", then all questions should be able to be answered simply, even easily. That they aren't, and uncomfortable questions are ignored says more than anything.
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Lady Lee
I was much more interested in directing the conversation toward anyone who might read the thread and even if it is only one person, be someone who was really questioning and who had real doubts. Read this thread with that mindset, even with a JW training and you'll come away having more questions and doubts than when you started.
That is what I was hoping. Hopefully those who read along will see the flaws in the reasoning.
If it's "the Truth", then all questions should be able to be answered simply, even easily. That they aren't, and uncomfortable questions are ignored says more than anything.
So triue Chris. Repeatedly on this board we see WT apologists try to debate theior beliefs and the WTS policy on so many issues. The reasoning flaws are so easily pointed out but so impossible for the apologist to provide solid response to
A while back I made a thread about how our brain functions in certain circumstances. I had been playing an online game for months. I had been so intent on solving the puzzle that for months I never saw the points scroll on top of the game blocking my vision sometimes. They were right there in front of my eyes. But as long as my vision was totally focused on one thing (the puzzle) I failed to see the obvious (my scores) which were right in front of my eyes even blocking the puzzle piece I needed. next. I think the WTS trained mind is similar. They read things into what they think is there and ignore information that is right in front of them.
What is great about having this in print is that it makes it harder for them to deny to others that it is there for all to read.
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hillary_step
Lady Lee,
Aren't you all tired of debating a lost cause?
Well, I am glad that you are not, because following this quoted statement you did just that and made a very good job of it too...lol
ThirdWitness,
In 1978 in the United Kingdon, I was threatened with disfellowshipping as I reported a Minsiterial Servant who had been molesting his daughter to the police, before I reported it to Mill Hill. Perhaps you might post this on your Board? I can supply details if you so wish.
Can you explain why the WTS would threaten me with such action? This was not a threat from elders 'making a mistake', this was from UK Headquarters
Thanks for your anticipated and usual non-response to all my uncomfortable questions.
HS
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Lady Lee
Well, I am glad that you are not, because following this quoted statement you did just that and made a very good job of it too...lol
I can't believe I fell into it so easily.
shame on me
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sf
and used some of that time recently to make a ceramic pig with wings. He's titled it, "When Pigs Fly"
How appropo.
sKally
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avengers
You ladies are the est!
Andy
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elatwra
Ok Im not sure if anyone has addressed this so I will really quick. Regarding the Christian denominations (Methodist, Baptist etc.) and their child abuse policies. No Baptist, Methodist etc etc etc church memeber would even think of going to the elders to accuse another church member of child abuse. They would go straight to the police. Only the watchtower is so controling that they would have their members report ot them first before doing anything else. So the point the article is making is irrelevant. For example:I used to work at a Christian school. The gym teacher who has just been hired got accused by two 6 yr olds of rape. So this is how it all went down:The kids told their parents. The parents called the police. They arrested him at his house.Then every news reporter in our area showed up at our school with cameras conducting interviews of insuspecting stuff who had no idea yet of what had ha[ppened. Even though the principal who hired the gym teacher had done nothing wrong and had done all the appropriate background checks he still lost his job. Then they reconsidered and readjusted the school policies to further ensure that this never happened again. We do not know who the children were that accused the teacher because their identity was protected. Even though it was a christian school, the law of two witnesses or not taking your brother to the police did not apply.There was no chance for internal investigation or clean up or cover up. People go to the police. Sex abuse is handled by professionals. Was it embarassing for the school and the teachers in charge? Sure, but the protection of the children came first. That is how investigations are handled in the real world.