Heres a dub who knows how to milk the disaster (page 3)

NameWithheld2

The several statements made by posters on WOL where they "gave glory and thanks to Jehovah" and felt "excited" when they heard the first reports of the attacks still send chills down my spine. The implications of this type of mindset are horrifying.

You and me both. This post almost made me physically sick ...

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=11687&site=3

when I realized that there was so little real difference in what the JWs so desperatly want to happen to the world, and what the terrorist are DOING to the world. Where is the line drawn? I don't know. I doubt JWs would ever actually resort to violence, but on the other hand, I sadly could imagine that at least some WOULD do acts like this should/would the FDS come out and require it.

At the very least I don't think JWs truely comprehend what it is exactly they are dreaming about - 6 BILLION people dying.

Shaneliza

ITguy,

How can you believe that this tragedy isn't a 'boon to recruit'? Given that the JW's believe that these are the 'last days', they are taught to go from door to door. The whole point of their ministry is to make more JW's.

You can naively think that they are going door to door ONLY to give spiritual comfort, but you and I both know that is not the ENTIRE agenda.

JW's are taught to 'spread the good news', that they are the only ones with the 'true religion'. And they are also taught to bring more people into the organization, because that is the only way potential JW's can be 'saved'.

I'm sure you have read comments made by Dubs on other sites, they are rejoicing that this a 'good opportunity' for wittnessing. THAT IS WHAT I TAKE OFFENCE AT. Some things are wrong, no matter how it is sugar-coated, no matter what the reasons are behind it.

ITguy

Shaneliza:

I guess you're not understanding me.

You're too focused on the WTS and your hatred of what it does and what it's teachings are to get the point.

The fact that yes, this may be a "boon to recruit" isn't the point.

The fact that behind the scenes (in your mind) that there is more of an "agenda" isn't the point.

Then, what is the point? Glad you asked. The Point is that I just felt that the ones mentioned way back in the beginning of this post were not out there taking advantage of people's vulnerablities, not out there to attain numbers, not out there hoping to gain glory by "recruiting" someone. They're out there because they feel they have a hope to share with them, a message from the bible that can give them comfort, a true (they sincerely feel) solution for the future. Some have expressed this is a "good opportunity for witnessing" Where is the harm in that? Since these same ones really feel they have the answer for the future, and it is comforting to "lovers of righteousness", why wouldn't they feel that this was in fact a chance to share this hope with ones who may really need such a hope and answers at this time? Why is that so horrible?

You have a beef with the earthly leadership of these ones, you disagree with the methods the WTS uses to achieve it's aim. You disagree with the beliefs, teachings, ideals and standards set forth by the WTS. That's all OK. I accept that. But you should not have a beef with the ones under them, the ones out there in all sincerity, doing what they think is needed and the right thing to do. I'm not saying all JW's are like that. I'm talking about the ones from the original post in this thread.

Shaneliza

ITguy,

You're too focused on the WTS and your hatred of what it does and what it's teachings are to get the point.

First of all, I don't hate the WTS, I pity them.

The fact that behind the scenes (in your mind) that there is more of an "agenda" isn't the point.

Secondly, we will get nowhere in this discussion if you feel the need to be condescending, and to insult me. The householders for sure don't know about any 'agenda', so in that repect are the JW's being completely honest about why they are at the door? NO. That is what I have a BIG problem with.

Some have expressed this is a "good opportunity for witnessing" Where is the harm in that?

The harm is that there is an ulterior motive. JW's are MOTIVATED in the first place to knock on doors in order to get new members.

Since these same ones really feel they have the answer for the future, and it is comforting to "lovers of righteousness", why wouldn't they feel that this was in fact a chance to share this hope with ones who may really need such a hope and answers at this time? Why is that so horrible?

The reason is because the JW'S, who see this as an opportunity are also dealing with emotionally shattered people. They are taking advantage of the situation, and that is WRONG no matter how you slice it.

You're damn right I disagree with these methods.

I think you are the one who oesn't get it.

dungbeetle

Not eveybody is like many of us on this board.

Not everybody wants to admit they made a mistake; that they were taken in, duped, made fools of.

Not everybody wants to admit that they went preaching door to door a message of hatred, violence, intolerance, in the 'name' of the Bible and God.

Not everybody wants to admit that they helped contribute to, build, espouse, and support the only religion that sends convicted child molesters to people's doors..some who haven't even finished their criminal cases yet!!!

Pride arrogance shame and embarrassment is no excuse for remaining JW or anything else. You can be all those things and not be a JW.

dungbeetle...cleaning up the crap.

ITguy

*sigh*

Shaneliza,

Where exactly was I condescending and insulting? If you took something that way, I apologize, it wasn't my intent. In fact, I was trying to go out of my to acknowledge that your own beliefs and ideas are ok...even if I don't agree with them.

Bottomline: I just do not believe that those JW's mentioned in the initial post of this thread had any hidden agenda, or were motivated by any ulterior motive to go talk to those people in their area. They saw what they felt was a need, and sincerely acted on it, in the way that they felt was right.

Is this true of all JW's? NO. But those ones, I felt yes, and that it was unfair to harshly criticize them.

That's all I was trying to say without getting into the whole "JW's are evil, brainwashing, childmolesting, opportunistic doomsayers who just need new members to replenish the coffers"

Edit...Spellcheck

NameWithheld2

That's all I was trying to say without getting into the whole "JW's are evil, brainwashing, childmolesting, opportunistic doomsayers who just need new members to replenish the coffers"

But they are! j/k

JWinSF

They're just a victim of cult-like mind control. Anyone who does independent research of the identifying marks of cults [definitions by people who never were part of the JWs, so they have no "axe to grind"] will see that the JWs [and many other Organizations] match the definitions of a cult 100%. They aren't like the "wacko" cults of Jonestown, Heaven's Gate, etc. But, that doesn't mean that they aren't a cult.

One of the prime methods that a cult uses is taking advantage of a personal tragedy. Read any of the materials by Steven Hassan [Combatting Cult Mind Control], Margaret Thaler Singer [Cults In Our Midst], Flo Conway and Jim Siegelman [Snapping], or Ronald M Enroth [Churches That Abuse] will quickly make evident the parallels of the JWs and Cults.

It makes no difference if a member honestly believes that they are helping the other person or not. The JWs think that they are helping by holding out the carrot of a Paradise Earth. The terrorists thought that they were also on a God-given mission and that God was on their side. I'm not in any way saying that JWs are murderous like these terrorists [although they do bear blood-guilt over suicides and blood transfusion related cases]. I'm just saying that they are not really thinking for themselves. They "think" that they are thinking for themselves. But, they've been conditioned to believe that.

Anyone who truly thinks for him/her self doesn't have to consult one set of publications [via the Indexes] to find out how to act in an event to the exclusion of all other sources. Anyone who truly thinks for him/her self doesn't have reason to fear expressing a difference of theological viewpoint due to the very real threat of being labeled an "apostate" with subsequent expulsion from the group.

So, they aren't "bad" people, just severely misguided in my opinion.

dungbeetle

just read your story, JWinSF. Very heartwarming and inspiring. Thanks for sharing!!! Hope to see you in Golden Gate Oct 7.

dungbeetle...cleaning up the crap.

teejay

These ones mentioned out in service above and around the world have a sincere belief that God is going to do something about these atrocities... they're out there trying to give some comfort and hope from the Bible to the people in their area. They're doing what they know, and what they believe is the right thing to do.

Well said, ITguy. Beautiful.

peace,
tj

Heres a dub who knows how to milk the disaster

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