by Norm 18 Replies latest jw friends
Hmm,
You said:
If you suddenly became President of the US tomorrow, you'd be saying "God bless America" at the end of your first speech, or you wouldn't be in office long enough to give a second speech. It's an empty phrase that shouldn't be taken so literally.
Hmm, sounds like the Americans are a lovely and tolerant people, eh?
Almost like God, huh?
Norm.
Nice post Norm.
As always, whenever an atrocity occurs, God just sits on his
ass and watches.
If you had the power to prevent or fix this event, or the holocaust,
or world hunger, or the Spanish flu, or plague of 1347, or child
molestation..... would you do it?
Of course you would. Does this mean you are more loving and
compassionate than God? That doesn't make sense.
The only explanation that makes any sense is that God isn't up there.
He is a figment of our imagination, a human creation.
Face the facts.
Either he was sleeping of the job and was looking the other way at the moment. Whatever God was doing he wasn’t very busy “Blessing America”.Do the religious believers stop for one second to ponders such obvious problems? Nope - no way. What do we see? Well, the usual mindless drivel. We should all pray!
PRAY is the watchword. Yeah sure. Pray to whom? To the God, which according to those same believers claims are the only one who could have prevented the very thing from happening in the first place? If this wonderful God of yours didn’t care enough to stop your loved ones from being killed in the first place, why do you think he would care for your prayers afterwards?
How true. It really struck me watching so many saying 'pray for those affected'. In the strict understanding of what they are saying - to pray to a god for help in this time of need - it makes no sense. Why would god give a crap about helping now, he didn't care enough to stop it.
HOWEVER, in another way I appretiate the thoughts behind those messages to pray for those. In a way I think those prayers are more to show we care for those hurt, then a real effort to appeal to a god. I'm sure many truely think that they are praying to and being heard by a god, but I think there are many more who recite the words 'say a prayer' simply as a way to show their thoughts are with them. Same as the thoughts behind lighting a candle ... it does no 'good' in the grand scheme of things, but it sure is a nice way to show the emotions we are all feeling now.
Howdy Norm,
You never hear a US politician who doesn’t order “God” to bless America. In light of the above mentioned gruesome event, how has God blessed America? As we know, the US intelligence, all the law enforcement officials, every American citizen, and 99% of the citizen’s of the whole world would have done everything in their power to stop something like this from happening, right?As it turns out we, the humans was unable to do anything about it. God on the other hand which according to all believers is all knowing, all powerful, omni whatever etc. Apparently couldn’t care less and let the fanatics go ahead and carry out the evil deed, much like he didn’t do much when Hitler was carrying out the Holocaust.
Either he was sleeping of the job and was looking the other way at the moment. Whatever God was doing he wasn’t very busy “Blessing America”.
Golly Gee, Norm, you almost gave an excellent Saturday door-to-door Jehovah's Witness magazine presentation. Oh, and the WT article being presented probably is about "God's Deliverance is Nearer than you think."
In other words, God - if He/She exists - might not be on anybody's side. And the jw will say that God saw what happened - but "it obviously wasn't His time to respond or He would have" then quoting the scripture "A thousand years to mankind is but the passing of a day in Jehovah's eye." And we humans are like grasshoppers, or pawns in a chessgame between God and Satan - some will have to be sacrificed to prove Jehovah's soverignty (is that still current light?) And.....if God didn't allow these things to happen - why look at all the people in Russia and Europe who wouldn't have learned about the Coming Peace and Security brought by God!
Your points were good, but the above were quite similar to Jehovah's Witnesses. What a hoot! Sorry, couldn't resist.
waiting
Hi Waiting,
You said:
Your points were good, but the above were quite similar to Jehovah's Witnesses. What a hoot! Sorry, couldn't resist.waiting
I am afraid you have completely lost me here honey. I didn't know that JW's were atheists.
Norm.
See above where I quoted you? You were saying that "God didn't interfere with the bombing." However, you inferred that "God didn't care" - but I knew you were *really* implying that God didn't exist. Even *I* caught that, Norm.
The average jw would have just inferred that "God didn't act because it wasn't time to act. Otherwise, He would have acted."
But, the point that "God didn't act because......" is a patented jw comeback. Mainly, because - it would seem - that God doesn't act. Which would then lead to the atheist comeback "because God doesn't exist."
Either way, God/something/someone didn't act. Only the reason *why* is different.
Whatever God was doing he wasn’t very busy “Blessing America”.
That, Norm, is a tongue-in-cheek jw response to persons they know. I know - I've said it before.
waiting
If you suddenly became President of the US tomorrow, you'd be saying "God bless America" at the end of your first speech, or you wouldn't be in office long enough to give a second speech. It's an empty phrase that shouldn't be taken so literally.Hmm, sounds like the Americans are a lovely and tolerant people, eh?
Almost like God, huh?
I'd say Americans as a whole are probably as lovely and tolerant as most countries. Ignoring the extremes, your average American is probably as tolerant as your average Brit, or German, or Pakistani.
My point was that politics the world over is about PR; style over substance--and thus, muttering a time-worn phrase is pretty meaningless. I don't know how it is in other countries, but an atheist won't become President of the US for many years. In other countries, it (was) probably the opposite--the former Soviet Union comes to mind.
If you're saying that a politician who has to worry about public opinion lives in an intolerant and un-lovely country, then I hope you live on a deserted island, or you're going to be unhappy with ANY government leader.
I guess I'm a believer by default, since I used to be one and haven't looked into it enough to change my mind. Maybe "deistically apathetic" is the proper term for me. I spent so many years slaving for a group of men, because I'd been taught that they had a direct line to God, that I think He/She (assuming He/She exists) will understand if I put the whole issue on the back burner for a while and play catch-up with my life. Therefore, I don't care to argue the whole God/god thing. My statements weren't in defense of God, just my opinion that saying that phrase doesn't say anything about one's intellect. If you've ever said "bless you" or "oh my god" did you immediately question your intellect?
Besides, when have you ever known a politician to NOT hedge his bets?
Hmmm
Hi Hmmm,
Thank you for an extraordinarily well put post. I wholly agree with all you say. I am glad that I live in a country where we accept both a christian and an atheist as our prime minister though.
Several of our politicians are also known homosexuals without that causing much problems.
Take care,
Norm.
Norm says
As we know, the US intelligence, all the law enforcement officials, every American citizen, and 99% of the citizen?s of the whole world would have done everything in their power to stop something like this from happening, right?
############
Reasoning and logical thinking is often times very hard for a Believer of most Belief Systems- the points you have raised- I too raised them today when the Gov agency i work at asked all for a moment of Prayer-
so afterward the conversation came up about Prayer and about all the folks on those planes who were praying perhaps with drops of blood coming out of thier skin FROM FEAR- i can't imagine the shear fear they must have felt- yet thier "GOD" did absolutely Nothing.
now that they ARE dead the beleivers are left with trying to explain why thier God did not help them:
from Pat Robertson we have as it were -- "God is punishing America for the HOMOS"
From others "God wanted a new angel in heaven" mindset
others "God knew it was thier time" mindset
and the list goes on and on with the excuses as to why thier "Loving" god would let all these folks die and all the families suffer
now the kicker is-- as i asked one dude -
what about the folks who were not of the Christian faith on that plane---- jews, buddist or other non christians they too got shafted right along with the bible believers
as i told one guy - at the front of the plane we got 5 dudes who feel that thier god is blessing them and using them in a Mighty Way and they are praying to thier god-
while folks at the back of the plane are begging thier god to hook them up and save them at the same time
so here we have 2 sets of prayers going off to heaven at the same time.
Some folks say:
"There is only one god and it don't matter if you call him lord, allah, jesus, god , jehovah, etc we all server the same maker"
those are they guys you just got to love----------
for example
If a policeman just watched your wife and 7 yr old daughter get ganged raped by 5 guys - why would you then turn around the next week and ask this same policeman for help
DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
BUT THAT being said-- i now understand why- as humans for some reason we have an INTERNAL NEED TO HAVE A HOPE and even if the hope ain't real doesn't really matter much to the masses of mankind
Hope is what sustains people and religions have realized that
and that is why religions of all kinds sell and sell well the only Product they have on the shelf- HOPE
"As Jesse Jackson would say KEEP HOPE ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!"
JAMES
