Sacrifice

by purplesofa 11 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  purplesofa

  Forgive me for not doing some research on this........

  but the whole idea of sacrifices keeps nagging me in the back of my mind. My knowledge on this about nothing. Why did it start? Did it start with Abraham sacrificing his son? I thought that was a story of obediance.

  And also, offering sacrifices for forgiveness...........what about that?

  The more I study religion I keep coming back to some superstitious mumbo jumbo. It's like we ARE all wacked in the head.

  I found this at Judiasm 101

  http://www.jewfaq.org/qorbanot.htm

  We stopped offering sacrifices because we do not have a proper place to offer them. The Torah specifically commands us not to offer sacrifices wherever we feel like it; we are only permitted to offer sacrifices in the place that G-d has chosen for that purpose. Deut. 12:13-14. It would be a sin to offer sacrifices in any other place, akin to stealing candles and wine to observe Shabbat.

  I know Jesus is a propitiatory(sp) sacrifice.

  I can't get the pieces to this puzzle and I can't seem to wrap my mind around the reasoning of it.

  The whole thing seems primitive. Do other religions or did other ........or all religions have this practice?

  Thank-you in advance for your comments.

  purps
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  Apostate Kate

  Genesis 3:21 Yahweh God made coats of skins for Adam and for his wife, and clothed them. WEB

  Some feel that this was the first death of an animal, the first sacrifice.

  Family Bible Notes; ....When our first parents had vainly endeavored to hide their shame by
  a covering of their own invention, God, in his great mercy, provided for them a suitable covering. This truly shadows forth the righteousness which God gives through faith in Christ, to all who
  humbly ask him for it, with a hearty acknowledgement of the worthlessness of their own righteousness.

  To me personally the reason life had to be sacrificed was so that we could always know what the cost of evil was. Count the cost, in other words.
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  purplesofa

  Thank you Kate
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  peacefulpete

  Bloody sacrifice is extremely ancient and part of most all primative religions, though in some cultures the victim was strangled so the blood was not exposed. As far as the Bible is concerned the writer of the cain and Able story simply assumes the rite of animal sacrifice without introducing it. It was so part of the writers thinking he never felt the need to explain it. Other writers depict Yahweh as having distain for these bloody rites and claiming he never called for them. Jeremiah 7:21-24 for example:

  21 " 'This is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says: Go ahead, add your burnt offerings to your other sacrifices and eat the meat yourselves! 22 For when I brought your forefathers out of Egypt and spoke to them, I did not just give them commands about burnt offerings and sacrifices, 23 but I gave them this command: Obey me, and I will be your God and you will be my people. Walk in all the ways I command you, that it may go well with you. 24 But they did not listen or pay attention; instead, they followed the stubborn inclinations of their evil hearts. They went backward and not forward.
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  purplesofa

  ooooooohhh thanks pete.

  what a gem!

  purps
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  Leolaia

  Wikipedia has a pretty useful article

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacrifice

  Here's the history in a nutshell:

  (1) The sacrifice is construed as a gift to the gods, for their benefit...in a similar way that food offerings to the dead are viewed as for the benefit of the deceased. Burning the sacrifice would produce smoke that the wind would carry to the gods. The statements in the OT that sacrifices give a "pleasing odor" to Yahweh is a remnant of this view. Such gifts are made to appease the wrath of the gods (who bring both blessing and calamity) and to maintain order on the earth. On this view, the gods are viewed more as personified forces of nature and are unpredictable. This typifies sacrifice in many polytheistic and pre-OT contexts.

  (2) In a later stage, the sacrifice is construed as a legal expiation for the actions that in the older view would provoke the wrath of the gods. Expiation is the means through which a guilty party can absolve his guilt by transferring it to an innocent being (e.g. a scapegoat) and sacrificing it. This view may involve ideas of theodicy and posit the gods or God as a divine judge who demand justice and punishment. Here the gods are viewed more within the cultural institutions of law and justice, and less as irrational and unpredictable forces. This typifies sacrifice in most of the OT.

  (3) Then in a later stage, a group that views themselves as innocent but undergoing unjust persecution by others may view themselves in the role of the sacrificial victim, and view themselves as expiating or atoning for the crimes committed by others. This happened during the Babylonian exile by the group that Deutero-Isaiah was writing for, and it occurred during the Maccabean persecution under Antiochus Epiphanes. In both cases, the exiles and the martyrs believed that they bore the guilt for the rest of Israel.

  (4) That last view then was applied, within early Christianity, to Jesus Christ in order to bring theological meaning and purpose to his crucifixion (the most heinous form of execution in the Roman world). Just like the Maccabean martyrs, Jesus was viewed as innocent and who bore the faults of others. However, owing to the universal scope of early Christianity (which drew from both Gentiles and Jews), Jesus was construed as an expiatory sacrifice for all sinners. However, there are many theological ways his sacrifice came to be understood by different writers, and not all writers even portrayed Jesus' death in such a way. The gospel writers applied all the texts in Deutero-Isaiah about expiation by the exiles to Jesus, the author of the Johannine gospel has Jesus executed at the moment the pascal lamb was sacrificed, and the passion narrative in particular draws its details from the OT descriptions of various sacrifice rituals in the Torah (such as the scarlet robe and thorns, and Pilate's handwashing scene).
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  purplesofa

  Bloody sacrifice is extremely ancient and part of most all primative religions, ; though in some cultures the victim was strangled so the blood was not exposed. ; As far as the Bible is concerned the writer of the cain and Able story simply assumes the rite of animal sacrifice without introducing it. ; It was so part of the writers thinking he never felt the need to explain it. ; Other writers depict Yahweh as having distain for these bloody rites and claiming he never called for them. ; Jeremiah 7:21-24 for example:

  If he never called for them then why Jesus sacrifice?
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  Ade

  indeed the bible answers this question my friend, regardless of whether it was mans idea or Gods the fact is there is no longer a call for it . i believe this may help you.
  
  HEB 9:
  11And Christ being come, chief priest of the coming good things, through the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands--that is, not of this creation-- 12neither through blood of goats and calves, but through his own blood, did enter in once into the holy places, age-during redemption having obtained; 13for if the blood of bulls, and goats, and ashes of an heifer, sprinkling those defiled, doth sanctify to the purifying of the flesh, 14how much more shall the blood of the Christ (who through the age-during Spirit did offer himself unblemished to God) purify your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
  15And because of this, of a new covenant he is mediator, that, death having come, for redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, those called may receive the promise of the age-during inheritance, 16for where a covenant is , the death of the covenant-victim to come in is necessary, 17for a covenant over dead victims is stedfast, since it is no force at all when the covenant-victim liveth, 18whence not even the first apart from blood hath been initiated, 19for every command having been spoken, according to law, by Moses, to all the people, having taken the blood of the calves and goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, he both the book itself and all the people did sprinkle, 20saying, `This is the blood of the covenant that God enjoined unto you,' 21and both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the service with blood in like manner he did sprinkle, 22and with blood almost all things are purified according to the law, and apart from blood-shedding forgiveness doth not come.
  
  God go with you my friend - Ade and family
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  peacefulpete

  If he never called for them then why Jesus sacrifice?

  Not all NT writer believed God sacrificed Jesus, Paul blamed the Archons (invisible rulers of this age) while others simply blamed the Romans and Jews. The idea that God caused it all to happen is yet another later theological development. As the Wiki article mentioned there were a variety of understandings of the story. The question really is why did early Christians interpret the crucifixion of Jesus ( whether historical or mythic) the ways they did. For many the death meant a divine drama of selflessness and model for sonship with God. For others, late Jewish theological developments primed the mind for the idea of individual vicarious expiation of 'sins' of others. This concept combined with the ever present 'pagan' idea of a godman dying and raising for the benefit of humans (whether for seasonal progression or later notions of sins) fully accounts for the emmergance of Christian theology.
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  sinis

  Perhaps there was not supposed to be a sacrifice? After all the parable of the vineyard and the workers killing the owners son is what was foretold. In the parable the son does not get resurrected but the father kills them all. Maybe christ was NOT SUPPOSED TO DIE and we humans killed him, so god had no choice but to resurrect him. No ransom, etc. until later when christians started changing things?