thirdwitnessCan you Scripturally support JW dogma? (page 2)

Big Tex

Silence is deafening.

Nice to know things haven't changed in the last 18 years.

Yes, Big Tex, thirdwitness is proving that he prefers to debate issues he considers debatable (i.e. matters of 70% interpretation, 20% BS, and 10% fact) rather than debate issues he CANNOT POSSIBLY twist the Scriptures into supporting.

I am not surprised that not a single JW has tried to present Scriptural proofs that the JW requirements for Christian baptism are Scriptural requirements. I was asked about this very issue this past week on Experts.com, after the pro-JW's leading expert chose not to answer a follow-up. I am neither pro nor con on the subject of JWs, but am pro or con regarding several specific issues and neutral on many others.

Here's the link where the asker asked Brenda Martin, the site's leading JW expert: http://experts.about.com/q/Jehovah-s-Witness-1617/Baptism.htm

Here's the Scriptures she gave Joseph Q.:

REPENTANCE
The cause making repentance necessary is sin, failure to meet God’s righteous requirements. (1Jo 5:17) Since all mankind was sold into sin by Adam, all of his descendants have had need of repentance. (Ps 51:5; Ro 3:23; 5:12) repentance (followed by conversion) is a prerequisite for man’s being reconciled to God.
CONVERSION
Conversion, that is, a turning around and abandoning any wrong course we followed when we did not have the knowledge of God. (Acts 3:19)
STUDY BEFORE BAPTISM
Paul stressed that “accurate knowledge” plays a vital part in gaining salvation. (1 Tim. 2:3, 4)
GO TO MEETINGS
Hebrew 10;24,25
GO PREACHING
Matthew 24;14; Matthew 28; 19,20.)

I agree with her response on repentance and conversion. That one is required by the Bible. However, nothing about 1 Timothy 2:3,4 says anything about gaining accurate knowledge prior to baptism. Nothing about Hebrews 10:19-25 applies to anyone who isn't baptized, and even then it doesn't say anything about attending 5 indoctrination sessions per week. Nothing about Matthew 24:14 or Matthew 28:19,20 indicate that anyone should preach prior to baptism. It does say they should be preached to, but doesn't say they should preach.

And she failed to address the issue of proving Bible knowledge prior to baptism. Joseph Q. apparently asked her a followup question, but I don't know the contents of his question or her answer, because she answered it in such a way that he could not followup or rate her second response to him. I do know what he asked me afterward, and I wish I had been able to read her first response before I answered him. I would have crucified her for her horrible response. I had no idea she had done such a miserable job of answering the guy. I tried to make Joseph feel better about her, now that I know how she responded I kind of regret doing so.

You can read the exchange between Joseph Q. and myself here: http://experts.about.com/q/Jehovah-s-Witness-1617/Baptism-1.htm

You have to scoll down to get to the answer. This is yet another JW who has not even really given an honest EFFORT at proving these are requirements. I hope this question catches on. It is a GREAT question, it puts the burden of proof squarely where it belongs.

Respectfully,
AuldSoul

Apostate Kate

Oh come on guys..don't be so hard on him, he has gone to discuss this with some elders and will get back to you........

Apostate Kate

JosephQ; The short answer to your main question is, no. I cannot provide scriptural proof that these are prerequisites for Christian baptism. The simple fact is, they are not taught as requirements anywhere in the Bible.

That said, Jehovah's Witnesses are not alone in imposing organizational requirements for baptism that the Bible does not specify. Quite a few churches require special slogans to be said by the offiating baptizer, specially formulated agreements and oaths, various ceremonies, certain articles of clothing (sometimes made of a specific fabric), persons of a special status in the church to do the baptizing, waiting for a specific occasion, etc. None of these are required in the Scriptures for baptism.

LOL great..special slogans by other churches is what JUSTIFIES JWs special baptismal requirments...

what perfect logic

AuldSoul

Apostate Kate,

I wasn't saying the requirements of other churches justifies the requirements of JWs, I was saying that the JWs are no different than many other "false religions" in that respect.

Respectfully,
AuldSoul

AuldSoul

Well, I suppose the deafening silence of JWs on this issue has answered my question just as effectively as any JW could be expected to, eh?

C'est la vie. As a JW, at least. Questions that have uncomfortable answers should NEVER be answered.

Respectfully,
AuldSoul

fullofdoubtnow

AS, t - wit doesn't seem to have been on the board for a few days, perhaps you could send him a pm with the link to this thread? I still don't think he'd post on it, but you'd have given him every opportunity then.

Linda

AuldSoul

Oh, thirdwi-i-i-i-i-itne-e-e-ess!!! Where are you?

looking_glass

3rd is busy taking a piss at the thread about the sexual abuse case in Canada as way to prove that the JWs are right and the rest of the big bad world is wrong. Because you know, one Canadian case proves all. Thank God we have 3rd here to show us the way.

Legolas

Auld..LOL... you posted this over a month ago .....he will never answer you!

It's above his head and below his knee's ....as the saying goes!

He probably has some lame excuse not to reply...But we ALL know the REAL reason he won't!

thirdwitnessCan you Scripturally support JW dogma?

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thirdwitnessCan you Scripturally support JW dogma?