Jw's or Muslim's whats the difference?

by DannyBear 19 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  teejay

  Danny,

  ... so many want to point to the goodness, when the EVIL and the duplicity of these rancid cult religions, only serve to destroy any real goodness their adherents may have by just being of humankind.

  Excellent point, my friend. M. Scott Peck said in People of the Lie that 'evil' was 'live' spelled backwards, the point being that anything or anyone that stands between us and a totally happy, fulfilled, life, is evil.

  The only difference between the cult of the watchtower and the religious fanaticism of those killers who flew the planes is in the length of time that their adherents suffer a less-than-full life and impose their twisted set of beliefs on others. Otherwise, the result is the same... a wasted life.

  I can at least take some comfort in that JWs die a slow death, and there's always the possibility that they will follow the path that we have covered, come to their senses, and wake up.

  peace,
  todd
• 

  DannyBear

  Nabelis,

  I will offer only this: Stand each single person side by side with other's who believe 'fanaticaly' that everyone must comply, must believe in the KKK, Christianity,Allah,Budda,or Oscar Meyer, you have a receipe for terror. In every sense of the word.

  Julie,

  I have to admit that you make a very strong case. I think that is why so many of us harp on Shelby and Rex, to draw to their attention this very fact. When you couple religious fervor, with messages or audible word's from 'god'....you have a potential for disaster. Even if they display love and human understanding, their will, their intellect is under the power of an outside force. A force that is even so nebulous and shadowy, that no one but the believer can hear or see these 'gods' without having some sort of 'faith'....well Iam sure the terrorists were all calling out to their 'god', believing to their last breath, that he was paying attention. To sad for words.

  Intro,

  Your asking the wrong guy. I can barely stomach to read a Wt. let alone some other religous fodder.

  Ginny,

  I guess that is why, my concept of who God is, is so far away from any religion, that most religionists like jw's, would do nothing less than condemn me for creating a personal god. Well my personal god is nothing like any god any religon, except some native american, but to me my God is very real.

  Tj,

  I liked the 'evil' spelled backwards thing, when you first mentioned it.

  I can truly say then, that those Muslim fanatics where evil in every sense of the word.

  For some reason I think there is more hope for jw's, than for the fanatical elements of Islamic cults. They just don't seem to have one iota of remorse, or abiltiy to listen to reasoning not drawn from their own well.

  Thanks for responding folks.

  Danny
• 

  GinnyTosken

  Introspection,

  Here's a site that explains the basic tenets of Islam:

  http://www.siu.edu/~msa/beliefs.htm

  In the section explaining "jihad," it is explained that:

  The Qur'an permits fighting to defend the religion of Islam and the Muslims. This permission includes fighting in self defense and for the protection of family and property.

  from http://www.siu.edu/~msa/jihad.htm

  The Qur'an is also quoted:

  Fight in the cause of Allah against those who fight against you, but do not transgress limits. Lo! Allah loves not aggressors. ... And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against transgressors." 2:190,193

  Ginny
• 

  Andee

  Hello all,

  I think if we are going to declare Muslims the enemy, we should at least have a basic understanding of their religious beliefs.

  Heard while I was at the hair salon:

  The usual ignorance of Americans.

  Hairdresser "What are they called? Islamic? Muslim? Oh yeah, Muslim. I hate those scarves that the women wear on their heads! They're in America now"!

  Islamliterally meaning "submission".

  The five pillars are:

  1.Shahada The act of bearing witness. No god before
  Allah. (Allah means God in Arabic)Muhammad
  is the messenger of God.

  2.Prayer Fives times a day.

  3.Almsgiving Giving and assisting the poor.

  4.Fasting During the month of Ramadan between sunrise
  and sunset.

  5.Pilgrimage To their most holy city of Mecca at least
  once in their lifetime.

  Islam also accepts the teachings of the Torah and the Bible. They accept Abraham and Jesus. They believe that Muhammad was the lastmessenger sent to perfect God's teachings.

  I think that an interestng fact is that only 15% of Muslims are Arab.
  The country with the largest number of Muslims is Indonesia.

  I think like in any religion, one has fanatics. Not all Arabs hate Americans. Certainly not all Muslims hate Americans. In fact, I think many Muslims are appalled by the events that took place here on September 11.

  I think if we are going to Islam bash, why don't we ask ourselves this? Have more people died in the name of Christianity or Islam?

  Andee
• 

  Introspection

  Thanks Andee. If someone criticizes a group with no knowledge of them, then the criticisms are based upon nothing.

  Danny, I applaud anyone who takes responsibility in their own spirituality. But frankly, just because one's own belief system is individual, it doesn't mean it's automatically better than one that has many followers. We have to look at what the actual basis are.
• 

  DannyBear

  Intro,

  ***Danny, I applaud anyone who takes responsibility in their own spirituality. But frankly, just because one's own belief system is individual, it doesn't mean it's automatically better than one that has many followers. We have to look at what the actual basis are.***

  You are inserting thoughts I never expressed. As I stated MY beliefs are just that MINE. Since I do not proselytize, post ad nuseum scripture and verse, either from the bible or Danny's sacred book of life, nor do I particulary espouse my beliefs as tne end all of end all truth, how can you even assert that I made any claim "it's automatically better"...I think you were just skim reading.

  No Iam not going to give you the basis for my beliefs. Why?, because it these religious ideas, that spawn most of the hatred and strife on this board, and the world over.

  Danny
• 

  Mulan

  Hi Danny,
  I watched a Muslim expert, and himself also a Muslim, on TV this morning talking about how this act of terrorism is not approved in the Muslim faith, and they do not teach or support this kind of thing. Suicide is condemned. War was not declared on the U.S., so it can't be considered dying in a holy war, as so many are saying.

  For myself, I can't get worked up about the insane teachings of other religions that I have not been a part of. I have never been anything before now, but a JW. I realize the Mormons have child molesters, and so do the Baptists, the Catholics, the Muslims, and the Jews, etc. But I know little of them. I know a lot about the dubs, so that is where my interest in helping lies.

  Just my feeling on this issue you brought up. To me, all religion is INSANE.

  Marilyn (a.k.a. Mulan)
• 

  DannyBear

  Hello Marylin,

  Thanks for your comments.

  Jw topics are what we know best, we were there, we know the facts.

  I should of more clearly defined the Muslim faction or sect, as the target for my post. I realized after reading my post, that that critical factor was understated.

  Even though the 'spin doctors' or appologists for religions, try and make their doctrines and teaching, more palatable for the general public (we see this from wt pr dept all the time), something that seems to be at the very core of these Islamic religions/governments is the absolute intolerance or western ways and beliefs. Their religion seems to allow for almost total disregard of women, the complete subjugation and total allegence required of its adherents.

  They display little if any, real empathy, for those who just visit their culture, demanding a certain amount of compliance to their wishes.

  They may claim or point to scripture that seem to say different, but their overall actions, and conduct toward others, mirror jw cultists attitudes even if they have a hard time, owning up to the reality.

  I certainly do not uphold or encourage hate crime. My jw relatives now stand to receive some of the backlash, from all our nationalistic fervor, I hope they don't, but this could be a factor as time goes on. So I want to make sure my intense feelings about this war, stay directed toward the actual enemy, those factions or sects that have promoted this type of violent attack.

  Thanks for helping me to put my thoughts in better order.

  Danny
• 

  Introspection

  Danny,

  You are inserting thoughts I never expressed.

  No Iam not going to give you the basis for my beliefs. Why?, because it these religious ideas, that spawn most of the hatred and strife on this board, and the world over.

  You misunderstood me. I was not comparing your own beliefs with any other belief system, but rather individual belief systems, no matter who's it is with that of an 'organized religion' with many members. My point is that it is true when we have our own beliefs and do not proselytize it is less likely to cause great harm, but in terms of what that belief system actually produces we have to look at it for what it is. I was not asking for the basis of your beliefs, but rather saying we need to look at the basis for the muslim faith. I'm sure you're very clear about your own beliefs, but what I was saying is we need to look at what Islam actually stands for before condemning them all based on the actions of one sect.

  For that matter, I don't think religious ideas necessarily spawn hatred and strife on the board, it all depends on who you talk to. There are no doubt those who do not want to hear anything remotely religious, but for all I know your beliefs may be very reasonable. In any case, you've made it clear that it is very personal for you and I respect that. But if I was to hear about your beliefs I would simply accept that as you sharing a part of who you are. It is certainly possible for someone to express their beliefs simply as a matter of disclosure, you don't have to promote it as something that others should adopt. I think having an open dialogue is important in promoting understanding, and I'd think better communication can only help in a situation like this.
• 

  DannyBear

  Intro,

  Thanks for the clarification.

  ***It is certainly possible for someone to express their beliefs simply as a matter of disclosure, you don't have to promote it as something that others should adopt. I think having an open dialogue is important in promoting understanding, and I'd think better communication can only help in a situation like this.***

  I believe in this statement you have offered. Those who do not offer their religious views, as open dialogue, but insist that their reader's accept their belief's as messages from God, will continue to foment nothing but derision.

  Danny