Are the "Last Days" an Absurdity? (8/15 WT)

by metatron 40 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • metatron
    metatron

    How could anyone know objectively if they live in the "last days", if they fail to examine history? How would anyone know if things were

    actually worse? If these prophecies have no standard of comparison, then they are meaningless, since they apply to any time period

    at all.

    How about war? Well, WW2 took place over 60 years ago. Since then, Europe has enjoyed the greatest period of peace and

    prosperity in its entire history. Disarmament experts say that the world is more peaceful - as measured by declared wars

    between nations - than it has been in many years.

    Famine? Today, the UK Telegraph reported that, for the first time, the number of overweight people in the world has overtaken

    the number of malnourished! And the trend is "accelerating"!

    Pestilence? When the Bible was written, life expectancy was less than 30 years! Scholars still debate that figure but there is

    widespread agreement that life was short in Rome, what with disease, war, lack of sanitation, riots, poor nutrition and so on.

    Many Western nations are enjoying the greatest life expectancy in their entire history, like Japan.

    "The increasing of lawlessness"? - The Watchtower avoids using hard statistics here because they show that US crime is low,

    historically speaking. Imagine ancient Rome - with no forensics, no fingerprints, no civil rights legislation, no security cameras,

    a 30 year average life span - and massive public displays of bloodshed in the Colesium. Emperors were often crazy and the rulers

    were massively corrupt. I don't know how anyone could think that wasn't worse.

    But what about morals? what about "Critical times, hard to deal with"? ( 2 Tim 3)

    Well, let me start by quoting from "The World of the Gladiator" page 6

    "The image of the gladiator conveys the whole sweep of casual cruelty; the cheapness of life, the sheer incomprehensibility

    of a civilization apparently built on blood and suffering."

    "Fierce, without love of goodness"??? My God, the Romans had no "Geneva Convention"! Prisoners would be executed by the

    thousands, entire nations could be annihilated, and captured opponents could be dragged thru the streets of Rome, beaten,

    spat on and slaughtered for an afternoon's amusement. The Bible even refers to this as a "triumphal procession" (leading

    to death). Wild animals ate people alive while crowds cheered for more.

    "Having no natural affection?? Are Watchtower writers aware that Romans commonly dumped babies they didn't want?

    That baby girls especially were killed off? That Christians complained that dogs were eating them? ( Tertullian)

    This was a far cry from aborting a lump of cells - it was widely practised infanticide.

    "Lovers of money"?? I can't imagine ANY love of money that was more horrible than slavery in Roman times. Lives were bought

    and sold. Woman were raped as mere property or sold to be prostitutes. Men were disposed of in gladitorial "games", if

    they displeased their OWNERS.

    Do I have to go on about adultery in Rome? or how penis shaped statues were used in worship or hung around the neck,

    as an amulet? Or how the legal age for marriage in Rome was 12 for girls? Or how mercy was rejected as "unmanly"?

    Or how they would crucify people by the thousands along some roads? Or how they would cover Christians with tar and use

    them to light up city streets?

    Does our world still have crime, war and sickness? Of course! But don't ever doubt that the human race is getting better and

    evolving upward! The idea of "worse and worse" justifying the idea of "Last Days" is nonsense.

    metatron

    ( and by the way, the Watchtower's practise of quoting anecdotal "evidence" and FAILING TO PROVIDE exact citations

    (8/15/06 pg 5) is nonsense, too. They don't want anyone checking their quotations for accuracy)

  • Seeker4
    Seeker4

    Yo Met! Great post. One of the things I got sick of hearing, even as a Witness, was how awful everything was, usually accompanied by a big sigh and the need to hang on until the new system came, real soon now.

    Personally, I thought this a rather delightful time to be alive!

    S4

  • fullofdoubtnow
    fullofdoubtnow

    Great post met,

    I like the way you dealt with each scriptural "proof" of these being the last days. A few years ago, I would have been using those same scriptures in the fs to "prove" this old system hadn't got long left. I would have dismissed the historical evidence you so skillfully presented and carried on trying to prove it.

    Now though, the jw scales have fell off my eyes, and it's obvious if we look at the lessons of history that things aren't any worse than they use to be, and in some cases are better. Sure, drugs weren't trhe problem years ago that they are now, but generally peoples health has improved. They generally live longer, eat better and receive better healthcare than at any time in history.

    You asked is the last days an absurdity. I'd say the watchtowers vision of it certainly is.

  • DanTheMan
    DanTheMan

    I don't know...I don't believe that our times are so great. I think that if you went back to Rome and started offering the citizenry all our sleeping pills and anxiety pills and the like, they would be like, bah, what the hell do you need that for? I bet the Romans slept like rocks; they had brutality but not the anxiety, I'm not sure which is worse. Modernity is it's own unique set of problems, I think that if you could bring a Roman citizen to our time they would be pretty horrified at a lot of things.

  • metatron
    metatron

    I think if you have trouble deciding that anxiety might be somehow equivalent to watching men hack each other to death in Roman

    entertainment, I hardly KNOW WHAT TO SAY!

    I'm sure that Romans would be stunned by so much modern opposition to capital punishment - and why wars somehow have to seem humane

    in our world. They'd probably be surprized by war with Israel ( "what, the Jews, again!!!"). They also might want to see the Iraqi Republican

    Guard fight to the death on HBO , after Saddam Hussein is publically eaten by panthers in Washington DC.

    Our controversy with Bill Clinton's behavior would leave them puzzled ( Even sex with a slave girl isn't adultery!)

    Roman prisoners of war would eagerily apply for Guantanamo - and being threatened by barking dogs at Abu Gharib would make them laugh

    ( "What, they just bite a little? Is that it? What's the big deal?")

    metatron

  • Flash
    Flash

    From my own experiance I have to disagree. I clearly see the changes. Since the Sixties till now major negitive changes have been steadily occuring and worsening yearly.

    Life over the decades has progressively become more violent in every area.

    Severe weather around the world has steadily increased so that now it has become accepted as "normal."

    People have become increasingly self centered with 'attitude,' willing to seriously harm anyone over the smallest thing,

    And the list goes on and on and on... Unless your in your Teens or Twenties, you should have no problem seeing the downward slide humanity and the earth has been on.

  • headmath
    headmath

    If the watchtower said the world ended yesterday I'd believe it

  • metatron
    metatron

    I'm sorry but much of what you assert is just wrong: The rioting and civil disorder so common in the sixties is a mere memory. Crime

    has gone down over several years. I returned to NYC a couple years back - and simply didn't feel like looking over my shoulder, as I once did

    - and the statistics agree with me. Civil rights legislation has been an amazing success, hard fought as it was. The Vietnam War is over

    - and no, Iraq doesn't even come close, and the numbers prove it. "More violent in every area" is just false.

    Severe weather? Where does Jesus predict that in Matt 24? You take a few Gulf storms and exaggerate them into what? And no, for

    millions across the globe , weather is not steadily worse, not even with global warming.

    Self centered people? Do they own slaves they can beat or kill? Can they watch a hundred men kill each other in the Colesium

    for entertainment? Can I get a group together and lynch a black person, as commonly done, together with white picnics,

    100 years ago?

    A thousand years ago, Europe was dominated by barbarians who killed, pillaged, raped and sacked Rome. Today, the descendants

    of those "barbarians" enforce laws against raising the middle finger to other drivers od even TRAFFIC CAMERAS ( court

    decision in Bavaria). Politeness is enforced with heavy fines.

    Two hundred years ago, most marriages in the colonial US were common law or "living together".

    This "worse and worse" mantra is nonsense - and defies plain history.

    metatron

  • sspo
    sspo

    I would rather live todays last days than 400 years ago or 2000 years ago.

  • Seeker4
    Seeker4

    Flash,

    I'm around your age, but I've got to agree with Met on this. There are certainly some global environmental issues I'm concerned with, but I was in NYC all through the 60s and into the 70s. Next week Lori and I are spending a few days there - and I'm much less worried about it then I was decades ago.

    The chicken little WTS approach to world events is ridiculous.

    S4

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