Are JWs Not Too Smart? Pros and Cons...

by Seeker4 28 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • ellderwho
    ellderwho

    I gotta chime in here,

    Great thread. Ive mentioned here before about my study with my stepfather elder who is a college grad and a investigator with the federal defender office.

    Dont ask me how he got away with this career. Now retired. Anyhow the study made its way to 607, 1914 and he became visably fustrated. He just could not prove it. And I held his feet to the fire.

    So with those work related "skills" I figured this was the silver bullet. NOT, he finally says "well this is what we believe and thats it"

    So there you go. He probably feels comfort within the org. and does not want to upset the apple cart.

  • barry
    barry

    Ive heard it said only inteligent people can be brainwashed so that would mean JWs are rather smart.

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    Barry..Many are smart,they just don`t know anything about the corrupt organization that runs them.In that area they are selectivly stupid...OUTLAW

  • Seeker4
    Seeker4

    There are plenty of smart JWs. As elderwho pointed out about his stepdad, a lot of Witnesses, even the intelligent ones, in the end simply resort to the "this is what we believe" line.

    I remember well my former brother-in-law elder (not an especially intelligent guy) telling me, "Whenever a question comes up in my mind about a Witness teaching, I just push that thought right out of my head."

    That comment was a real factor in my leaving the JWs.

    S4

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    "I just push that thought right out of my head."..LOL!!..Priceless!!..Seeker4,that is the funniest line I have read all day...OUTLAW

  • BizzyBee
    BizzyBee

    Another odd dynamic:

    I'm sure that many people who belong to a religious faith cannot necessarily explain the complexities of the dogma of their religion.

    However, how many religions do you know that demand as much commitment of time, energy and demonstration of faith from their adherents as the WTS? A nice sermon on Sunday, a few hymns and you're good to go. Whereas the JWs are trotting around meetings, talks, field service, studies, conventions, etc., in a constant dead heat.

    I would think that alone would make JW's examine carefully whether this is the truth.

  • isthisit
    isthisit

    i think there are intellegent dubs, although in our hall not many. A lot bask in their own stupidity. There are some that really have their head screwed on, i remember we had a talk given by this guy that used all "worldly" philosophers as examples. I actually remember thinking ( i was 15ish at the time) that you can be smart and be a witness. I heard last month that he and his wife DA'd.
    I remember being expressly told not to bring what i was learning in Uni to the kingdom hall. Then i had a talk about Good Works as a Christian (which i ooops, failed to include going out on the service, how evil of me) and used a quote from Martin Luther. The brother who takes the schools, loves the fact that he left highschool early to work in a car factory, asked me for a copy of the quote so he could use it in talks, i told him that i'd photocopy the entire tract for him, but "i'll have to figure out which textbook it came from"- the look on his face was priceless.
    i think the smart ones go as soon as they wake up.

  • garybuss
    garybuss

    One fallacy I labored under was the reasoning that behavior and intellect were separate. One way to understand something is to take it out of context and see if it works in a different context. Another way to understand something is to reduce it to the ridiculous.
    Story:
    I knew guy who was undoubtedly a genius, he had a vivid photographic memory and could answer any mathematical problem with his head only, with easy speed. His behavior didn't seem to always match his intellect but he could still . . . prove that intellect. He liked to sit and meditate in the middle of the road. One day a bus came buy and hit him and killed him.
    I have another friend who is not of the genius level at all and has important information printed on paper and kept in his pocket for reference. He likes to mediate too, only he likes to sit and meditate on the bank of the river away from the noise of the road.
    Who is the smartest of the two?

  • Seeker4
    Seeker4

    BB wrote: "I'm sure that many people who belong to a religious faith cannot necessarily explain the complexities of the dogma of their religion."

    That's true, but it's exactly BECAUSE JWs spend so much time supposedly studying their beliefs that they should have a much clearer understanding of them, and be able to explain those deeper things. Yet I'd bet 95% can't.

    And yes, it is strange to be in a religion where people brag about their LACK of education!

    S4

  • willyloman
    willyloman

    Dubs used to brag (and still do, I'm sure) about how the WT's "educational program" was superior to the world's and always point to some brother who only got to the 10th grade but is a superb public speaker with a well developed vocabulary, articulate and knowledgeable when he speaks.

    And there are dubs like that, but they are far and few between. For every self-educated dub, there are four or five, maybe more, who eschew education, study, reading, learning of any kind, and are content to go along with whatever the WTS' program is. "What does the Society say?" is the one question in their intellectual arsenal, and it provides them with all necessary answers.

    I had a college degree before I became a dub (which raises a questions about how "smart" I really was!), and was always astounded at the double standard regarding education. Because I was well versed in the language and had good study habits, my progress in the organization was rapid. Starting in a very small congo, I was quickly put to work with "responsibilitiles" and was delivering public talks 15 months after baptism, just a month or two after being appointed a MS. At the same time, I was conducting the secnd "school" and holding a class in the afternoon to teach kids to read (remember that old Society reading program in the '70s?).

    So clearly my education was key in moving me up the dub ladder. My wife told me later I was considered a prime "catch" by the dubs in her hall (she became a JW first).I heard dubs refer to my situation as "proof" that JWs attracted educated folks, too. However, I also ran into all sorts of resentment, particularly on the part of other elders who viewed my education with suspicion. I vividly remember one conversation in an elder's meeting 25 years ago, when another educated elder and I argued that we ought to use our best speakers (and there were four or five in our congo, not just us) to handle meeting parts that were complex or required research and clarification (as when doctrines were shifting). Despite offering WTS' written support for this policy, one of the elders said this would establish a"a teaching elite" and this phrase then dominated the rest of the conversation. In other words, teaching ability -- which is listed not only by the WTS but the damn Bible as a prime requisite for leadership in the congregation -- became a highly negative quality to possess.

    I watched uneducated elders "butcher" public talks because they did not understand what the outline was saying, or misread the citations in various publication, or even misapplied scriptures because their understanding of the language was so limited. I watched a guy get up and give a talk on blood transfusions in about 2002, just aa few years after the WTS had turned the whole policy upside down, and base his entire talk on articles that were printed 20 years earlier. As a result, almost everything he said was "wrong" in terms of what was then "present truth" or current dub doctrine.

    I could go for days, but you've all seen it. There is no premium placed on intelligence in dubland, no reward for being studious -- only for the appearance of having studied, i.e., the ability to parrot WTS pet phrases and interpret scripture along approved guidelines.

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