Questioning Apostates

by The wanderer 10 Replies latest jw friends

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  The wanderer

  Questioning Apostates

  I recently read a post in which a man who was married for 27 years was on
  the verge of a divorce from his wife because she claims he is an apostate.
  The apostasy was because he showed her the history of the Watchtower
  Society.

  Why is it that some individuals can accept the true history of the Watch-
  tower while others remain in total denial?

  Drawing Conclusions

  My best friend could not accept any of the evidence concerning the United
  Nations. With the documents both from the United Nations and the Watch-
  tower he still could not be convinced that the Watchtower was involved
  in anything wrong. I have drawn up a conclusion regarding this issue:

  Individuals in the organization do not want to believe they were duped.
  
  It may raise questions and even doubts about "God's organization."
  
  The brainwashing is just that intense.
  
  They do not want to deal with any issues of negativity.

  It seems to me that even if you question the Watchtower Society you will
  be looked down upon and if you continue in your quest you will be consider-
  ed an apostate.
  
  Any thoughts regarding this?

  Respectfully,

  The Wanderer
• 

  jgnat

  The problem is called Cognitive Dissonance. Hit them with too much information at once, and they experience discomfort. To avoid that feeling, they find a way to dismiss you. You can provide new information to an active witness if they are appropriately primed. You must analyse your target, their motives and personality before you present ANY new information. Timing is important, too.

  I wouldn't consider it an appropriate time immediately after the District Convention, for instance, when they are seeing demons behind every street-post.
• 

  serendipity

  Perhaps JWs don't want to publically admit that critical remarks have merit?
• 

  outoftheorg

  Look up the psychology of "BELIEFS" and you will find that beliefs are in a way married with ones mental security.

  To challenge their imbedded beliefs is to challenge their system of security also.

  It is an interesting read.

  Outoftheorg
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  Arthur

  With the documents both from the United Nations and the Watch-
  
  tower he still could not be convinced that the Watchtower was involved
  
  in anything wrong.

  Which documents did you show him specifically? How did you get ahold of these documents? (especially documents from the WTS)? I would like to know, so that I can look at them too.

  Thanks,

  Arhthur
• 

  sspo

  The JW's when told about the UN scandal and other negative issues, they refuse to acknowledge it.

  I had my wife and my brother in law just excusing the GB and even saying that at times the society has to do certain things in order to get things done for the benefit of the brothers.

  It reminded me of the catholic church and how it can do no wrong even when history proves them otherwise.
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  dozy

  In fairness , even some "apostates" don't think that the WTS did anything wrong in its dealings with the UN , so it doesn't automatically follow that when someone shows the "evidence" to a witness that they will suddenly have a Damascus style conversion. Ditto paedophilia - some apostates feel the WTS is riddled with such activity , others (notably Franz) dismiss it.
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  Gerard

  Individuals in the organization do not want to believe they were duped. It may raise questions and even doubts about "God's organization." The brainwashing is just that intense.

  It may be indoctrination, but don't underestimate the horror of realizing that you and your family have been duped all your life. In this case, denial is a powerful self-defence mechanism. IMO, only those with the skills to survive in the real world will question the WT history.
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  the dreamer dreaming

  I dont think it is brainwashing but a form of hypnosis which causes one to ignore things they are told not to see... you see it alright, but your mind does a song and dance and tells you to ignore it and you move on to the next thing without remembering what it was you just saw.... in the mind of most of us things that bother us echo over and over again until we resolve them... to the hypnotized they are just filed and buried under do not open boxes....

  I saw this first hand when, while recounting all our JW doubts, post exodus, my now ex wife had a sudden memory surface of an elder trying to molest her.

  when she broke free of his grip and left the house, she told her self that THAT DID NOT HAPPEN as she had just expeirenced it and buried it and never ever looked at it again until the moment we found it.... and then she became enraged and vengeful and desirous of retribution... she spoke to her dad, a fallen elder but still connected and got this elder to step down... but before she could get her revenge or at least an apology, this very old one died.
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  jgnat

  Ditto paedophilia - some apostates feel the WTS is riddled with such activity , others (notably Franz) dismiss it.

  I've had a day or two to ponder this statement, dozy. While accurate as far as it goes, I think it misrepresents how many "apostates" feel about how the Watchtower Society deals with pedophiles in their congregation. Today gretchen started a thread that expresses my views on the subject very well:

  Well here's my precious opinion for what it's worth. They have an organization structured in such a way as to make this easy on the abuser. They can be accused, but unless there are two or more witnesses, their word is belived over the victim. The organization is set up to automatically take the male's word over females and kids, and they protect their own more than any thin blue line (cops).

  Are they all bad? No, I would not even suggest such a thing. But I would suggest that the good ones are turning a blind eye to this. Its far easier to believe that they could not appoint a BAD elder, after all, they think they are spirit directed in that decision. So they overlook a lot, to the detriment of their congregations. At the least willful neglect, at the worst, spiritual and physical abuse.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/11/118816/1.ashx

  Dreamer dreaming, you provide a wonderful example in superb detail, how Steve Hassan describes mind control (as contrasted with brainwashing). People can be fooled in to believing the most ridiculous lies, if presented a certain way. Has your wife been able to move past her experience and get some healing? www.freedomofmind.org