Concerning the Place of Women in the Congregation.

Flash

Mark 13: 14 (let the reader use discernment)

Question, is every thought and opinion contained in the bible a divine standard or command from God? No, and our women have suffered as a result. Is the bible, in its entirety the Word of God or does the bible 'contain' the word of God along with human reasoning?

For instance, Proverbs 31: 6 and 7 is clearly the opinion of King Lemuel's mother, not a 'Bible Principal.' When reading Deuteronomy 24: 1 ~ 4 it appears to be God's law though Moses, does it not? Yet, when we read Matthew 19: 7 ~ 9 Jesus makes it clear that on the matter of divorce Moses took it upon himself to make law...it was not from Jehovah. Would any Israelite who disagreed with Moses law on divorce been wrong? Or was Moses wrong to begin with?

Now, concerning the writtings of the apostle Paul, his personal opinions and imposed traditions are intertwined throughout his writtings. Here are some important examples: 1 Corinthians 11: 4 ~ 16 (pay special note to verses 14 and 16) also chapter 14: 34 and 35, 1 Timothy 2: 9 ~12, Remember, before he was a Christian, Paul was a Zealot for Judaism, a man raised in a life of Traditions and Rules. Galatians 1: 13 and 14. His writtings (more than those of Moses) show he had no problem imposing his personal views and traditions on the congregation.

Should we not use our discernment and be discriminating as to what we accept as from Christ through Paul or should we just ASSume it is ALL from Christ. Remember Pauls coversion? He went almost overnight from being and unbalanced zealot Jew to being a Christian...an unbalanced zealot Christian ( 2 Corinthians 11: 16 ~ 23 especialy note verses 17 and 23 ) who ultimately caused his own imprisionment and pre-mature death by ignoring 2 divine warnings NOT to go to Jerusalem. Acts 21: 4, 10 ~ 13.

Does this mean Jehovah did not inspire/motivate the bible to be written and preserved? No. Does inspiration alone elevate ALL the contents of the bible to the level of Divine Law? No. As I hope I have just shown. Now, with the Governing Body insisting Pauls opinions and traditions are Divine Law our women have been reduced to 2nd Class Citizens in the congregation...This has to change!

Shazard

There is one more explanation. You don't understand what you are talking about. You dont even recognize difference between law and gospel.

Rooster

it appears to be God's law though Moses, does it not? Yet, when we read Matthew 19: 7 ~ 9 Jesus makes it clear that on the matter of divorce Moses took it upon himself to make law...it was not from Jehovah. Would any Israelite who disagreed with Moses law on divorce been wrong? Or was Moses wrong to begin with?

7

They said to him: "Why, then, did Moses prescribe giving a certificate of dismissal and divorcing her?" 8 He said to them: "Moses, out of regard for YOUR hardheartedness, made the concession to YOU of divorcing YOUR wives, but such has not been the case from [the] beginning. 9 I say to YOU that whoever divorces his wife, except on the ground of fornication, and marries another commits adultery."

"Why, then, did Moses prescribe giving a certificate of dismissal and divorcing her?"

Where can this be found in the Old Testament.?

Justitia Themis

JWs can not understand womens' proper place because they start from an incorrect premise. They feel that Eve was less than Adam, "a complement," and then they search the rest of the Bible to support this premise. They base their whole argument on Genesis and Eve's being called a "helpmeet" for Adam. They incorrectly apply rank and position to this word. The Hebrew word is "Ezer" and this precise word is used several times elsewhere in the Bible. ALL of these times, it applies to Jehovah being OUR "helpmeet." Ps. 20:2, Ps. 33:20, Ps. 89:19, Ps. 115: 9-11, Ps. 121. 1,2; Ps. 124:8, Ps. 146:5.

Using the WTBTS's argument, that would make Jehovah less than us because he is our "helpmeet." Eve was neither more than, nor less than. Just like a partner in a corporation, she had a different job, but equal rank.

LongHairGal

What about how women were viewed in the OT. It talks about how she got up early, supervised her staff, etc. etc. This doesn't sound like some stupid wishy, washy sister of today. It sounds like a strong woman who was deserving of respect.

This example in the OT conflicts with what they would like a woman to be today. They have serious issues with intelligent women. Some pathetic brothers would be intimidated by this very capable wife.

L

Balsam

Some Biblical Scholars doubt that all the writing attributed to Paul are his. The pastorial writings of 1 & 2 Timothy and Titus were likely not written by Paul but later additions by the early church and early church fathers who try attributed these writings to Apostle Paul. I've found Bart Ehrman a professor at UNC who has written and lectured on Paul helpful.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/0195300130

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/2timothy.html

NewYork44M

For those who feel that women should not have a leading role in the congregation please answer the following:

"What is it about that job or role that requires a penis?"

Flash

Shazard

You dont even recognize difference between law and gospel.

Well then, why don't you enlighten me then? I have never heard of such a thing. What I do consistantly hear is the bible is the 'Word of God' or the bible is infallable. Translation ~ everything in it is the expressed will of God and law! Which I do not agree with.

Rooster

"Why, then, did Moses prescribe giving a certificate of dismissal and divorcing her?"
Where can this be found in the Old Testament.?

Deuteronomy 24: 1

"In case a man takes a woman and make her his possession as a wife, it must also occur that if she should find no favor in his eyes because he has found something indecent on her part, he must also write out a certificate of divorce for her and put it in her hand and dismiss her from his house."

To read this without knowing Jesus explanation for how it happened, would lead one to believe it came from God through Moses...when in actuality it did not.

Justsia Themis

JWs can not understand womens' proper place because they start from an incorrect premise. They feel that Eve was less than Adam

I'm not sure If I agree with you on the reason why, but we definately about their erroneous conclusion. What's funny is, according to their own beliefs, women of the Anointed will RULE as Kings in heaven...But the women on earth, at all times, are to be servants!??

LongHairGal

...It sounds like a strong woman who was deserving of respect.

This example in the OT conflicts with what they would like a woman to be today. They have serious issues with intelligent women. Some pathetic brothers would be intimidated by this very capable wife.

Sadly yes. I think that has always been part of the problem throught history.

Balsam

Some Biblical Scholars doubt that all the writing attributed to Paul are his.

I've heard this too. ( I will look over the links to learn more )

NewYork44M

"What is it about that job or role that requires a penis?"

A penis AND testicles. LOL

Your right though, when I used to go to the KH I knew a number of very qualified women that would make great Elders or CO's or DO's or anything else!

daniel-p

Your right though, when I used to go to the KH I knew a number of very qualified women that would make great Elders or CO's or DO's or anything else!

I'm surprised that when discussing the scriptually-based inequality of the sexes the topic goes to how women should be able to hold positions in this fruity little religion. Why would they even want to? The first thing (as a man) that came through my mind when realising the lies behind it all, was how I detested "serving" the congregation in any capacity... I couldn't imagine women feeling like it was part of their liberation to obtain positions in a completely ****ed up cultish religion.

Flash

I couldn't imagine women feeling like it was part of their liberation to obtain positions in a completely ****ed up cultish religion.

Even aside from this particular religion, most Christian religions that I know of have the doctrine of women having no governing role in the church. It just occured to me, I did hear of one christian religion that has ordained women priests...I can't recall which one though.

Concerning the Place of Women in the Congregation.

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