So is America finally getting wiser? Who still believes this nonsense?

by Jourles 76 Replies latest social current

• 

  Jourles

  the person of whom that question was asked stated in his reply that he thought it was more important.

  *Evidently referring to myself* - Yes it was more important to me only because of the reason I stated. If I had grown up under Islamic rule and lived in the middle east, my perspective might be the same of the Islamic leaders as it is of Bush. But I'll never know. And neither will you.

  So once more, would it be fair to label those Americans as "terrorists" in my previous hypothetical example? If not, why not? And if the answer is No, then why do we automatically label the rebels in Iraq as "terrorists" for doing the exact same thing some Americans would do on their own soil, namely, attacking the military occupation? This is the question I would like to see Pro-Bush followers answer.

  Remember the film Red Dawn? Were those kids rebels/freedom fighters or terrorists for attacking the Russian military?
• 

  hillary_step

  James,

  You think that James and others of my "ilk" are uneducated because we do not see things your way?

  No, I believe that you express uneducated views about overseas matters. Your general level of education is not in question.

  You think that George Bush "creates" terrorists? ;

  I did not say that. I said that the invasion of Iraq has made thousands of Islamic fundamentalists from a mix of tribal and social Arab who would not have existed if Iraq had not been invaded. My comment to you regarding the Iraq/Iran war in a earlier post evidences this, as factions in Iran and Iraq, once bitter enemies, have joined forces to overthrow those whom they view as their opressors.

  If you are suggesting that the number of fundamentalist Islamic terrorists have not increased since the invasion of Iraq, do not even go there James, as the evidence that would confound your view is public knowledge. It astonished me frankly that you would even suggest this, as you have done in your post.

  I think that radical Islamic mullahs create Islamic terrorists.

  No, they cleverly shape the anger and frustration of those who listen to them into a focused and unfortunate direction. Without the groundswell of resentment to build upon, they would have no foothold in the hearts of these people. If you were to do some research on the make up of 'terrorists' in Ireland for example, you would find it not uncommon for those who suffered directly at the hands of the Protestants, the police, the IRA, the UK government to enter the world of terorism through their own anger and grief.

  HS
• 

  james_woods

  Apparantly, the "educated" world view is that Islamic terror does not spring forth from radical Islam: Hillary_Step disabuses me of that assumption as follows:

  No, they cleverly shape the anger and frustration of those who listen to them into a focused and unfortunate direction

  This is a typical left-wing and socialist apology for blatently criminal behavior on the part of these Islamic fanatics. The argument basically boils down to this: They only take up this attitude because the US antagonizes them. If we were just more placating, and a whole lot nicer, we would soon see this problem melt away, as these killers are really pretty nice (if desperate) people who are being molded by their clever suicide guru leaders. The west is really the root cause of the trouble (well, the west plus Israel...I guess).

  This is the same thinking that blames wealthy americans for our inner city crime - people wouldn't be doing those bad things if we stepped in to equalize society and made sure that all those well-intentioned but desperate crack dealers and carjackers had an easier way to get money.

  I think it is time that we face an ugly fact here in the 21st century: Islam is being despotised into an increasingly intolerant and agressive form of state religion. It is evil and it must be resisted by civilized nations. We cannot hope to apologize or negotiate our way around that fact. I am sure there are many here who will never agree with this statement - and that is fine. I just hope you folks never have to live under Islamic law.

  I have posted my last on the subject for now - I notice that my total is rapidly approaching the magical 1000, and I want those last few posts to be on exJW issues, or at least on something more useful than a diatribe on how evil the United States Government and its elected president are.

  Sincerely, James
• 

  done4good

  This is a typical left-wing and socialist apology for blatently criminal behavior on the part of these Islamic fanatics. The argument basically boils down to this: They only take up this attitude because the US antagonizes them. If we were just more placating, and a whole lot nicer, we would soon see this problem melt away, as these killers are really pretty nice (if desperate) people who are being molded by their clever suicide guru leaders. The west is really the root cause of the trouble (well, the west plus Israel...I guess).

  This is the same thinking that blames wealthy americans for our inner city crime - people wouldn't be doing those bad things if we stepped in to equalize society and made sure that all those well-intentioned but desperate crack dealers and carjackers had an easier way to get money.

  I think it is time that we face an ugly fact here in the 21st century: Islam is being despotised into an increasingly intolerant and agressive form of state religion. It is evil and it must be resisted by civilized nations. We cannot hope to apologize or negotiate our way around that fact. I am sure there are many here who will never agree with this statement - and that is fine. I just hope you folks never have to live under Islamic law.

  I have posted my last on the subject for now - I notice that my total is rapidly approaching the magical 1000, and I want those last few posts to be on exJW issues, or at least on something more useful than a diatribe on how evil the United States Government and its elected president are.

  I've been refraining from the political threads so far, but James, I must agree with you on this one.

  j
• 

  hillary_step

  James,

  I am beginning to have doubts about your level of education on all fronts, not just your ignorance of things foreign.

  This is a typical left-wing and socialist apology for blatently criminal behavior on the part of these Islamic fanatics. The argument basically boils down to this: They only take up this attitude because the US antagonizes them. If we were just more placating, and a whole lot nicer, we would soon see this problem melt away, as these killers are really pretty nice (if desperate) people who are being molded by their clever suicide guru leaders. The west is really the root cause of the trouble (well, the west plus Israel...I guess).

  I did not say the West is the ROOT of the problem, we all know that RELIGION is the root of the problem. What I have said, repeatedly I might add, is the the evidence is quite plain that the invasion of Iraq has been responsible for the growth of Islamic terrorism in the Middle East and its export around the world can be laid at the feet of the invading forces. If you have evidence to the contrary, I would be very interested in seeing it.
  Please read my posts carefully before responding to them James, then you would not make such an idiot of yourself when you reply to them.

  HS
• 

  TopHat

  I have come to the conclusion that this is the decade of CRAZY leaders....In the US, IN Iraq (Saddam), in Iran, In Syria....the Hezbullie, Osama......Perhaps the next decade will bring the world better leadership.

  Actually I like Tony Blair.....He is a good man....He can't help it if he is surounded by Idiots who want to distroy each other.
• 

  Jourles

  I have posted my last on the subject for now

  That's ok. I didn't really expect an answer from the pro-bush folks anyway...
• 

  searcher

  Going back to the original post for a moment....

  Fifty-one percent of the 1,206 adults surveyed in the August 17-21 New York Times/CBS News poll

  WOW! Thats somewhere around 650 adults!!!!!!

  Good thing America doesnt have too many people living there otherwise the poll would look slanted hm?
• 

  Simon

  WOW! Thats somewhere around 650 adults!!!!!!

  Good thing America doesnt have too many people living there otherwise the poll would look slanted hm?

  You do know that's how polls work right? To get to know how everyone thinks quite accurately you only need to get the opinions of a representative sample ...

  Asking *everyone* is not called a poll ... it's an election (assuming a democracy where voters are given their vote of course)
• 

  Jourles

  Here is a great quote by Bush just recently made:

  When Bush answered a question about Iraq last week by raising September 11, a reporter asked him, "What did Iraq have to do with that?" The president replied, "Nothing," and added, "Nobody has ever suggested in this administration that Saddam Hussein ordered the attack."

  There you go. Our great and fearless leader of the Free World admitted that Iraq had "nothing" to do with 9-11. So why was Iraq a target in the first place?? Let's see, first it was the 9-11 terrorist link; then it was because they had WMD's all over the place; then it was because Saddam was a very very bad man; now it is because we have to fight "terrorism" on their land and not on ours. It's just one excuse after another.

  It's no wonder that the rest of the world view Americans as complete idiots. This clusterf**k in Iraq is a good example of our "intelligence," both literally and militarily.