OK, Let's think this out

by purplesofa 38 Replies latest jw friends

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  purplesofa

  Edited to add:

  If there is an inspired god, he is manmade

  Is that you putting yourself in a box, purps?

  nvr,

  What is your name for that box?

  purps

  bem

  Love your post, and you must be really proud of your son.

  purps
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  bem

  Thanks Purp, yes he is amazing and very, very plainspoken, he's the only one of my three young 'uns "born in jwism" he hates, I mean hates, jws beliefs, christondom, religion, bible bearing good news people of any form. But he does have a good take on people and for his young age he is not far off on the things proven now, What the future holds of course is to be seen.
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  nvrgnbk

  nvr,

  What is your name for that box?

  purps

  It's your box, you name it.

  But really, if one thinks God is manmade, which is what you said, doesn't that mean that one thinks He does not exist outside of our imagination?

  I think that would make one an atheist.

  People that smoke can be accurately referred to as smokers.

  People that don't smoke can be accurately referred to as non-smokers.

  People that smoke occasionally can be accurately referred to as occasional smokers.

  I think this discussion is upsetting you, and I would never want to do that, purps, so I'll leave it for now.
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  purplesofa

  It's ok nvr

  I don't feel good today, and am not really prepared for INTENSE right now.

  I apologize,

  purps
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  Paralipomenon

  Purps, the idea of drafting up a "modern day commandments" is rather interesting and I think deserves it's own thread. I would steal the idea myself, except topics created by me tend to cinderblock in a big way. :D
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  VoidEater

  Purps: Thanks for the thread - sorry to hear you're rather out of it today.

  I guess today I wish we could be just connect to the core of who we are, no labels, no athiest, no fundies, no democrats, no republicans, no history.

  You point to two different domains we humans live in - the mental/labels/boxes versus the experiential. I often see our egos as the tips of mountains rising from the ocean - and beyond that I experience we are all connected at the sea bed. If we lived as if we were all connected, what might the world look like? I'd have to treat everyone as if they were a part of me.

  Nvr says:

  People that smoke can be accurately referred to as smokers.

  People that don't smoke can be accurately referred to as non-smokers.

  People that smoke occasionally can be accurately referred to as occasional smokers.

  True. And useful for some discussions that help us make sense of the world through labels. But I wonder if we didn't pay much attention to the boxes, then how different we might treat each other. When examining the boxes of "hitting women", I too am satisfied to be in the "has never hit a woman" box - but I wonder how much hitting comes about because of "box thinking" - if instead we had the the connection Purps talks about at the forefront of our awareness, perhaps we'd stop hitting each other.

  Not that we seem capable of it (yet), but maybe if we had a Bible that told us of a different reality, we'd become different. If the Bible is just a reflection of us, maybe we should write a new one every hundred years or so.

  But really, if one thinks God is manmade, which is what you said, doesn't that mean that one thinks He does not exist outside of our imagination?

  I think that would make one an atheist.

  Patience! I think I may be getting there. But beyond that, my experience of God has been completely internal (imagination? just a different domain?). My concept of him (which is only based on "God is love", as far as scipture is concerned) has led me to act nicely, but the only evidence I have is that he hasn't done anything for me in the outer world. That makes him rather internal, and if that limits Him to my imagination, then I guess that must be where he resides.

  Who knows, when the apocalyptic predictions of Jehovah's Witnesses and other fundamentalist groups continue to go unfulfilled, they may themselves assign them a "spritual" fulfillment, to save face. They're quite good at that sort of thing.

  Amen. Another helping of INVISIBLE second coming, anyone? i missed the bright light from horizon to horizon (I may be misquoting here).
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  VoidEater

  Hi Purps:

  I think its easier, the lazy approach to just let things happen and play out.

  Sadly, true. Momentum is usually easier than manifesting change, and taking responsibility for change. True change comes about from the individual level, and begins when we change ourselves.

  We believe so much that God is going to come in and fix things, we are content to continue to let destruction continue to happen.

  Let's "wait on Jehovah". But maybe God changes the world through us, all that really has to happen is our taking up the mantle and getting on with it. Either way, it's up to us to create the world we want (with or without a prophetic book to inspire us). It can really be rather pragmatic - I want to live in a better world, so I better start making that world. The evidence I have is that God has not stopped the suffering - particularly of those in his churches - so let's look for alternatives toa stopping the suffering.

  We feel we are hopeless to change anything. The few people that do actively try to change things meet with such opposition its unreal.

  And sometimes there is success. Inertia is hard to alter; but once started, it gets easier.

  We debate what is right and wrong, what is moral and what is not, instead of what really works!!!

  I get trapped in the boxes sometimes, too. But the pragmatist in me wins out in the end.

  Sometimes I wish every sign, law, rule, regulation, commandment, the slate was wiped clean, Then how would we make it, how would we go on, how would we get along?

  My point, too. If we stopped treating each other as means to our personal wish fulfillments, might we start treating each other as if we were part of the same organism? Would that just become another box - but would it be a better, larger box where better things happened? In theory, Christ did away with all laws but two - both of which are to love. Love is an experience.

  Would we simply love our neighber as we do ourselves? and love God with our whole soul, thought, and might?

  I'd like to try that experiment.

  Think and feel what we know really works? Would we see two young boys hung and killed for a homosexual encounter? Would we steal from another if we were starving? or would we love our neighber and feed the starving?

  We wouldn't care what two people consent to do between themselves. We would share what we have and go through the same trials and honors together. At least that's how it works in my world.

  Over the twenty years I have been exposed to the truth, even they have developed so many rules its too much to keep up with.

  A religion of rules rather than a community of love.

  We all are living in very teeny tiny boxes. Busting to get out!!!

  Boxes and labels are generally restricting and painful.

  If there is an inspired god, he is manmade, IMO, and the disasters that happen to the planet are the living planet that it is still evolving and changing............If a "god" steps in, it will only be mankind coming to their senses of whats real, the core of life, stripped of all the scripting. We will have no more excuses.

  We have no excuses now - only wounds that limit our responsiveness.
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  purplesofa

  Thank-you VoidEater,

  You gave me the nicest gift today......and I want to thank you very much.

  You really listened and I appreciate that.

  I got teary.

  I just get so upset sometimes, realizing just what a mess everything is. And It is all so senseless. Mankind seems to have lost reasoning by continuing on with old laws and ways of thinking.

  We condemn and judge those that do not hold what WE think is true.

  All the while marching on to what seems to be our demise.

  I talked once to a doc that I worked for that is Hindu........He told me that their teachings have no Armeggedon, they do not have that fear.

  I know Hindus have alot of freaked out stuff going on, but at least Armeggedon is not one of them.

  I seem to be struggling with my GOD beliefs at this time.....or maybe the right lingo.

  I don't want to be put in a box or put anyone in a box or make labels at this time........I truely am trying to think this out.

  I really can't express fully what I believe, or really if it is even important.

  I have faith in the hearts of mankind and the thinking abilities we have........thats the only thing that will get us through.....

  Hanging onto future bible prophecies, looking for this sign and that sign......trying to make something fit to apply to scripture .......we already see square pegs trying to fit in round holes.

  And yes, Void Eater. I agree

  If we stopped treating each other as means to our personal wish fulfillments, might we start treating each other as if we were part of the same organism? Would that just become another box - but would it be a better, larger box where better things happened? In theory, Christ did away with all laws but two - both of which are to love. Love is an experience.

  Also, How much of what we do is totally unselfish. When I truely am giving and loving, I feel like that is when I am most selfish. For I am really only thinking of myself. But I have come to realize that most of what people give ......what seems giving has very selfish motives.

  So maybe right now we can't rewrite mankinds script, but we can re-write our individual ones, and little by little things will be different and better.......

  Thanks for giving me hope.

  purps
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  purplesofa

  Purps, the idea of drafting up a "modern day commandments" is rather interesting and I think deserves it's own thread. I would steal the idea myself, except topics created by me tend to cinderblock in a big way. :D

  Para,

  If you dont start a thread soon on the topic........I will!!!!! good idea!!

  purps