HOW MANY ARE LEAVING? (page 5)

M.J.

Funny but my JW wife will even google a "special deal" that someone tries to sell her on...Too bad she was a pre-google JW too.

Thanks one and all for your comments and thoughts.

I'll tell you a couple came to the door during the week and Gwen talked to them calmly, and one of them got all upset and sarcastic when he realized she was a former jaydub.

He just could resist his sarcastic comments and snide remarks.

How i wish they would come when i am at home.

i want to seee the jaws hit the driveway when they realize who i am, and who i am with.

imagine the chatter at the local hall!

uninformed

s4, blondie and all,

this has been a great thread. enjoyed your comments.

i too believe that the world would be a better place without mind control religions.

I thought that is why Jesus was coming.

Brant

greendawn

We don't have the statistics but from what we hear the WTS is having serious problems with member losses after the 1995 change in the generation concept when they had to compromise their major enticement ie the soon to be paradise and eternal life. Suddenly many realised they had no reason to be in the org.

BrendaCloutier

For them to survive I think they will need to reinvent themselves again. This trend will continue only if they continue on as they are right now.

Just like Catholicisms adaptation of pagan locations and holidays to bring in the peoples, or Episcapal church allowing women and gay priests? I don't think so. Too much BS too recent for that kind of reinvention IMO. So far their best allies are the political fear mongering and the seemingly strengthening voice of the "moral minority". Seeker4 - I hope you are right.

willyloman

Blondie: Nice chart! If I read it correctly, it says a lot of how dub growth has ebbed and flowed in line with certain high-expectancy dates.

For instance, note the huge run up in baptisms prior to 1975. Then the big increase in MIA statistics for several years after '75.

Then notice that by 1984, the MIA figure was virtually non-existent. That's about the time the Society started highlight the "generation = 70 years, or 80 max" interpretation of scripture and while they were very careful not to come right out and say it in print (having learned from the '75 fiasco), there was hardly a dub alive who hadn't done the math: 1914 + 70 =1984; 1914 + 80 = 1994. The consensus was that 1975 was a clever device used by Jehovah to sift out the imposters and that the REAL time of the end was somewhere in that 10 year span.

Now take a look at 1994 and beyond. MiA number climb through the roof. You can almost read the mindset: "Whoa, 1994 came and went, and nothing! Guess it's time to reevaluate my positon." And clearly that's what's happened.

mcsemike

So many factors are involved, it tends to make you dizzy. I think one thing someone mentioned about a drop around 2000 was the psychological "New century" thing. Years ago, they said the preaching work would be done and the end would come "within this century". They later changed that to "in our day". I think that phrase triggered as many to leave as 1975 failing did. Then the generation thing snapped: 1914 plus 80 years equals "whoops, we're past that date". Some halls shuffle people around, but you can't do that forever. One thing to look for is either congs. getting smaller or two small ones merging into one and then look for a K Hall being sold. There's a big clue right there.

Blondie, excellent effort with the spreadsheet. People with internet quit, those without stay. I'd look there too for clues. Ignorance is bliss and knowledge means people quit. We all know the WT has the money to use TV, radio (they used to have a station, why was it sold?) and other more modern things to reach people. Why still use door to door when it hardly works? I think less than 1 percent get baptized due to being found "in the field". Most of us had co-workers, friends, and family tell us about this religion. With gas prices and many JW's too heavy to keep stopping at Dunkin Donuts, they really need to find another method.

As someone said, they'll need to reinvent themselves, but what's left to change into? Whatever they choose, the loyal ones will gulp it down and act like it was "oh so clever, only Jehovah's people could have come up with THIS new light". I can't wait to see what it is. After my family left me because I criticized how they handled my daughter's rape, I used to call in occasionally. Then the brother in charge said you had to be preapproved as a "known sickly JW" to call in. So I quit altogether. I certainly wasn't going to shave, dress up and drive in the rain or snow when I could listen on speakerphone while doing computer work or watching TV. And we had 4 to 8 phone lines. They were always all taken well before the meeting started. (Like 20 minutes or more.)

One last point that someone said about no reason to stay. If the end isn't likely to be in our lifetimes (I'm 56 and first met a JW when I was 21 years old), then I can ignore them, die a natural death, and if this stuff is true, get resurrected 400 years from now. I mean, haven't they said that you get to live again even if you "knew" the truth? So why are any of them still going? If they really doubt Armageddon's coming in their lifetime, then "eat, drink and be merry". I don't know anymore, I get a headache thinking about the mental gymnastics I need to go through to figure out what's next. If only they used something simple like LOGIC. You could have an IQ of 200 and be in Mensa, it wouldn't help you to figure out how the GB thinks. I saw a tape of Jaracz when questioned about the UN or child abuse when he was at a convention. What an obnoxious snot! And I ordered the video from Silent Lambs where that elder in Australia got rude when the reporter asked a question a second time because the elder didn't answer it the first time. He said, "what are you, hard of hearing?" or something to that effect. I wanted to punch him in the nose. I see nothing in the behavior of the elders or the publicity people (JR Brown being one of the biggest horse's asses I've ever seen, he lies so well I know he is a psychopath) to indicate that God's spirit is with these people. THEY are the ones constantly belly-aching about "grieving Jehovah's Holy Spirit" as the reason things go wrong. How about the fact that they violate the Bible being the reason that holy spirit isn't with them?? If you think that's the reason, please raise your hands. Thank you all and good health to you.

PS. To any lurkers out there. I suggest you read this entire site very carefully. To those who are agnostic or quit the WT and don't care, you will at least save your time and money. To those of you who still believe in God and the verses about "how you judge, you will be judged", you just might save your lives. If you really are correct, and you DON'T have the truth, YOU will die, not the rest of the world. I'd be very careful about throwing mud at others when you wear such lilly white clothes yourselves. Remember, one speck of dirt gets you killed by the angels. Better get those brushes and a good stain remover handy. You'll need them.

Seeker4

BrendaC: Me too!

WillyLo: The generation thing was huge. We did a thread on here a while ago about who on this board left then, and it was a lot. I was one of them. That combined with their lack of journalistic ethics pushed me over the edge.

S4

garybuss

The Witnesses who die before Armageddon just as well have never been Witnesses. There's no advantage for them at all. If they die before Armageddon they obviously were not a part of the "great crowd" and if they were not a part of the "great crowd" they can't be "other sheep" either. They are just dead in a common sinner's grave waiting re-creation in a perfect replica body for judging along with the sinners who lived the life the Witnesses didn't live.
They have all paid for their sins by their personal deaths because the wages sin pays is death. What benefit is there for a Witness who dies before Armageddon that their non-Witness neighbor does not have?
The cart's ahead of the horse. The "great crowd" is identified after Armageddon, not before. The "great crowd" is identified as people LIVING through Armageddon.
The Society isn't reminding Witnesses of this element of their teaching for obvious reasons:-)

HOW MANY ARE LEAVING?