Materialised demons... why not?

by LtCmd.Lore 19 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • LtCmd.Lore
    LtCmd.Lore

    Acctualy I don't believe in demons anymore. But the recent Bible Teach study caused me to wonder... why does the society think that the demons are not capable of making bodies for themselves anymore, there was no support scripture so I looked it up on the WT library:

    In 1953 there was a Questions from Readers about why they posess people and animals... they simply stated without any proof that they are incapable of making bodies anymore.

    Then in 1955 they offer a scripture.

    ***

    w55 10/1 p. 594 par. 8 Part 3—What Do the Scriptures Say About "Survival After Death"? ***

    8

    Their being "reserved with eternal bonds" evidently means also that they are no more permitted to materialize in the flesh as before the Flood. This power of materialization was exercised by God’s faithful angels, including Jesus Christ, for thousands of years after the Flood, down into the day of Christ’s faithful apostles, according to God’s will and to serve his holy purposes. But the sinner angels were not allowed to use this power longer, for they would misuse it.

    So I'm not sure what exactly Jude is talking about: 5 I desire to remind YOU, despite YOUR knowing all things once for all time, that Jehovah, although he saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterwards destroyed those not showing faith. 6 And the angels that did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place he has reserved with eternal bonds under dense darkness for the judgment of the great day. 7 So too Sod´om and Go·mor´rah and the cities about them, after they in the same manner as the foregoing ones had committed fornication excessively and gone out after flesh for unnatural use, are placed before [us] as a [warning] example by undergoing the judicial punishment of everlasting fire. ___ I think it means that they aren't allowed in heaven anymore and that they aren't allowed to repent of their sins. But not that they lost any powers.

    ***

    w65 10/1 p. 581 Do Evil Spirits Exercise Power over Man? ***

    The Bible further shows that following the birth of God’s heavenly kingdom by his Son, Jesus Christ, the Devil and his angels were hurled down to the vicinity of the earth: "So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him." (Rev. 12:9) Down here at the earth, these demonic angels are no more permitted to materialize in the flesh as they did before the global Flood. Yet they can exercise power over men, so much so that the Bible says that Satan, along with the demons, is "misleading the entire inhabited earth."

    In 1973 they become less dogmatic about it and just say that there is evidence that they can't:

    ***

    w73 8/15 p. 485 Witchcraft Becomes Popular—Is It Dangerous? ***

    There is evidence that, since the Flood, they have not been able to materialize, but, in order to indulge their perverted desire for fleshly connections, they have possessed or inhabited and controlled humans.

    And then they go back to saying it without proof.

    ***

    w01 9/1 p. 6 The Devil—More Than Just Superstition ***

    Satan and the demons are now severely restricted. They can no longer materialize as they apparently once could. Shortly after the establishment of God’s Kingdom in the hands of Christ in 1914, they were cast down to the vicinity of the earth.—Revelation 12:7-9.

    Probably the most convincing is when they quote the 'reserved with eternal bonds' thing.

    *** it-2 p. 492 Nephilim ***

    The Bible states that the disobedient angels are now "spirits in prison," having been ‘thrown into Tartarus’ and "reserved with eternal bonds under dense darkness for the judgment of the great day." This seems to indicate that they are greatly restricted, unable again to materialize as they did prior to the Flood.—1Pe 3:19; 2Pe 2:4; Jude 6.

    However this seems to be a pretty bold assumption considering that all it says for certain is that they aren't allowed in heaven anymore, not that they lost their powers...

    So why does the society push this idea so dogmaticaly... what do they gain from it? Personaly I think it's unimportant, and a matter of opinion. But they say it over and over as if it's hard fact that must be accepted.

    Is there something I'm not getting? It seems to me that they push this for a reason but I don't know what it is.

  • badboy
    badboy

    SO THEY GAVE BIRTH TO THE NEPHILIM!

    Presumebly they cannot materalized now.

  • under_believer
    under_believer

    The stuff about spiritism is mostly there, in my opinion, for potential Witnesses in third-world countries. Most Western audiences look at that stuff with bemusement.
    Though Brother Bland in my hall, an elder, did comment during that study that corded friendship bracelets and corded belts are spiritistic in origin and shouldn't be used by Witnesses, lest they invite demons.

  • ex-perfectdaughter
    ex-perfectdaughter

    What I've never gotten about the "story" was....if the demons could materialize into men, because they wanted to have sex with the women on the earth...Why couldn't they just as easily made themselves women to have sex with? Smacks of a manmade fable to me.

  • Warlock
    Warlock

    Some people claim to have encountered materialized angels, so why not demons? The Bible does not say that demons cannot do it today.

    Warlock

  • parakeet
    parakeet

    UB:
    ***Most Western audiences look at that stuff with bemusement.***
    I beg to differ! Almost every JW I know, including my parents, fervently believe in demons. Every bump in the night, every Ouija message, every haunted house, is caused by demons, in their superstitious little world.

  • under_believer
    under_believer

    You're right of course parakeet. I mostly was referring to non-Witnesses reading that stuff. I can't even imagine trying to conduct a study with a reasonably intelligent person on that stuff--a non-starter.
    In almost all of Africa, much of South America, certain immigrant populations throughout the Western world, and parts of Asia, the spirit world is a complete reality. There are witch doctors. People can be burned because they are witches and put a curse on people. I think those are the people the spiritism discussions are there for, mostly. It might convince Western Witnesses that demons exist, but it's mostly there for others.
    Too bad it doesn't free them from superstition--it just swaps one set of spiritism and ritual belief for another, doesn't it?

  • Inquisitor
    Inquisitor

    Coming back to your initial question, LtCmd.Lore.

    So why does the society push this idea so dogmaticaly... what do they gain from it?

    I don't see any immediate, tangible profit from such an interpretation.

    I suppose the explanation for why demons cannot materialise resolves the obvious puzzle to why pre-Flood evil angels (aka demons in JWspeak) could materialize then, but are no longer able to do so since. It also helps to lend a new interpretation to what Tartarus is in contrast with mainstream Christianity's interpretation of the term.

    A group that aspires to be the only true religion in this world must pretend to possess many answers, even if the answers are forced or outright lies.

    INQ

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    Simply said, they needed an excuse for why mythological superhuman giants aren't running amuck today.

  • proplog2
    proplog2

    Our book study conductor kept getting these scary eyes while talking about demons. I would swear he had Graves disease - the Thyroid disorder that makes the eyes bug out.

    A lot of my agnostic x-witness friends say they would love to have an encounter with anything angel or demon. At least they could believe in the possibility of God's existence.

    If there is a Devil he doesn't leave much of a trail.

    The idea of angels having sex with women has been discussed before. They would have to have gonads to have that much sexual interest. Did they like the feeling between their legs before or after they materialized? The whole concept of materialization is based on the Platonic idea of "soul" as something that is at the control panel. Modern science has found that there is no one controling the behavior of the universe or human behavior.

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