by sandy 15 Replies latest jw friends
How do we know he actually felt and said those words. The apostles were asleep, no one witnessed this. What is written years later in a book is hearsay information.Blueblades
Interesting thought on that BB. Never thought of that - it had to be rumor, or hearsay, or legend didn't it?- he prayed alone and the apostles were dozing. Hmmm. Jeff
*** it-2 (1988) pp. 1154-1155 Vessels ***
The symbolic "cup" that Jehovah poured for Jesus Christ was His will for Jesus. Doubtless because of Christ’s great concern over the reproach his death as one charged with blasphemy and sedition would bring to God, Jesus prayed that this "cup" pass away from him, if possible. Nevertheless, he was willing to submit to Jehovah’s will and drink it. (Mt 26:39, 42; Joh 18:10, 11)
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w58 8/15 p. 500 par. 19 "Be Vigilant with a View to Prayers" ***Then, just before the mob came to take him, Jesus prayed three times regarding his Father’s will for him: "My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass away from me. Yet, not as I will, but as you will." No doubt the apostle Paul had this particular occasion in mind when he wrote that "in the days of his flesh Christ offered up supplications and also petitions to the one who was able to save him out of death," his heavenly Father. (Luke 22:31, 32; Matt. 26:39; Heb. 5:7) Not that we are to think that Jesus shrank back from death, or from the kind of death that awaited him. Had he not told his disciples that he would be put to death as well as the manner of it? (Matt. 16:21; John 12:33) Rather, we must conclude that his great concern was because of the reproach that the death of the Son of God upon a torture stake would bring to his heavenly Father, Jehovah God.
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w71 5/1 p. 273 pars. 19-20 The Ransom, Marvelous Expression of Love and Justice ***No, Jesus did not appeal to his Father to be spared from death. But he knew that in a few hours he was going to be arrested and brought before the Jewish Sanhedrin. They were going to declare him guilty of blasphemy against God, the worst possible crime. (John 10:33; Matt. 26:65) Remember, he was the one who ‘loved righteousness and hated lawlessness.’ Here he had come down from heaven as the Son of God, to vindicate his Father, and first of all, his essential nature—his sonship—was denied by God’s own professed people. (John 19:7) But now, they were going to hang him upon a stake as the worst kind of person there could be—a blasphemer against God, as well as a seditionist. (Luke 23:2-4) What a defamation of God! He comes to vindicate his Father and exalt his name and here he is to be hung up as a curse and a blasphemer!
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To have that charge as a blasphemer and to have God’s chosen nation responsible for that accusation—that was a terrible thing to Jesus Christ, for in the past he had been the one most zealous of all in the universe to please his Father, to uphold him, to avoid even the smallest thing that might reflect upon his Father. A blasphemer! Today, if a person is one of Jehovah’s servants, but turns away in apostasy and blasphemes God, he is detestable to all of God’s people. Jesus Christ, with his perfect mind, heart and understanding was far keener about this than we could be. Nevertheless, he said: "Yet, not as I will, but as you [Jehovah] will."—Matt. 26:39.*** w77 1/15 p. 48 par. 16 Build Up Your Confidence Now for the Future ***
Even Jesus prayed three times to his Father that, if it were possible, he might be spared having to drink the "cup" of being made to appear as a blasphemer of God and a violator of his Law by being impaled on a torture stake. Yet, ‘not my will be done but God’s will,’ he said. (Matt. 26:39-44)
*** w87 2/15 p. 13 pars. 15-17 The Two Greatest Expressions of Love Ever Made ***
Because of all that was bound up with his death, Jesus prayed in the garden of Gethsemane: "My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass away from me. Yet, not as I will, but as you will." (Matthew 26:39) What was Jesus asking for when he uttered those words? Was he wanting to beg off from being "the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world"? (John 1:29) It simply could not mean that, for all along Jesus had told his disciples that he would suffer and die, even indicating the kind of death he would die. (Matthew 16:21; John 3:14) So Jesus must have had something else in mind when praying thus.
16 Without a doubt Jesus was concerned about the charge of blasphemy that he saw would be hurled against him, the worst crime a Jew could possibly be guilty of. Why be concerned about a false charge? Because his death under that circumstance would bring reproach upon his heavenly Father. Yes, the spotless Son of God, who so loved righteousness and hated lawlessness and who had come to earth to glorify his Father’s name, was now to be put to death by God’s own people as a blasphemer of Jehovah God.—Hebrews 1:9; John 17:4.
17 Earlier in his ministry Jesus had stated: "Indeed, I have a baptism with which to be baptized, and how I am being distressed until it is finished!" (Luke 12:50) Now was the climax of this baptism. Evidently that is why his sweat became as drops of blood when he prayed. (Luke 22:44) Moreover, there was an enormous burden resting upon his shoulders that night, a burden beyond our ability to comprehend. He knew that he had to prove faithful because if he failed, what a slap in the face of Jehovah that would be! Satan would claim that he was right and Jehovah God was wrong. But what a slap in the face Satan the Devil got because Jesus proved faithful unto death! Thereby he proved Satan to be a base, gross, and monstrous liar.—Proverbs 27:11.
*** w87 4/15 p. 30 Do You Remember? ***What did Jesus mean when he prayed: "My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass away from me"? (Matthew 26:39)
Jesus was concerned about the charge of blasphemy that he saw would be hurled against him. This was the worst crime of which a Jew could be guilty. His death under that circumstance might seem, therefore, to bring reproach upon his heavenly Father.—2/15, page 13.
*** w91 9/15 p. 5 Whose Prayers Are Answered? ***
On the night of his arrest, Jesus prayed in the garden of Gethsemane. Three times he pleaded: "My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass away from me." (Matthew 26:39, 42, 44) Jesus was not reluctant to give his life as a ransom for believing mankind. No, but he apparently was deeply concerned about the possibility of dishonoring his dearly beloved Father by dying on a torture stake as a cursed blasphemer. Did Jehovah hear Jesus’ prayer?
*** w90 10/1 p. 8 Agony in the Garden ***
Going a little way forward, Jesus drops to the ground and with his face to the ground begins earnestly praying: "My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass away from me. Yet, not as I will, but as you will." What does he mean? Why is he "deeply grieved, even to death"? Is he backing down from his decision to die and provide the ransom?
Not at all! Jesus is not appealing to be spared from death. Even the thought of avoiding a sacrificial death, once suggested by Peter, is repugnant to him. Rather, he is in agony because he fears that the way he will soon die—as a despicable criminal—will bring reproach upon his Father’s name. He now senses that in a few hours he is going to be impaled upon a stake as the worst kind of person—a blasphemer against God! This is what sorely troubles him.
*** w87 4/15 p. 30 Do You Remember? ***What did Jesus mean when he prayed: "My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass away from me"? (Matthew 26:39)
Jesus was concerned about the charge of blasphemy that he saw would be hurled against him. This was the worst crime of which a Jew could be guilty. His death under that circumstance might seem, therefore, to bring reproach upon his heavenly Father.—2/15, page 13.
*** w71 5/1 p. 273 pars. 19-20 The Ransom, Marvelous Expression of Love and Justice ***
No, Jesus did not appeal to his Father to be spared from death. But he knew that in a few hours he was going to be arrested and brought before the Jewish Sanhedrin. They were going to declare him guilty of blasphemy against God, the worst possible crime. (John 10:33; Matt. 26:65) Remember, he was the one who ‘loved righteousness and hated lawlessness.’ Here he had come down from heaven as the Son of God, to vindicate his Father, and first of all, his essential nature—his sonship—was denied by God’s own professed people. (John 19:7) But now, they were going to hang him upon a stake as the worst kind of person there could be—a blasphemer against God, as well as a seditionist. (Luke 23:2-4) What a defamation of God! He comes to vindicate his Father and exalt his name and here he is to be hung up as a curse and a blasphemer!
20 To have that charge as a blasphemer and to have God’s chosen nation responsible for that accusation—that was a terrible thing to Jesus Christ, for in the past he had been the one most zealous of all in the universe to please his Father, to uphold him, to avoid even the smallest thing that might reflect upon his Father. A blasphemer! Today, if a person is one of Jehovah’s servants, but turns away in apostasy and blasphemes God, he is detestable to all of God’s people. Jesus Christ, with his perfect mind, heart and understanding was far keener about this than we could be. Nevertheless, he said: "Yet, not as I will, but as you [Jehovah] will."—Matt. 26:39.
*** w58 8/15 p. 500 par. 19 "Be Vigilant with a View to Prayers" ***
Not that we are to think that Jesus shrank back from death, or from the kind of death that awaited him. Had he not told his disciples that he would be put to death as well as the manner of it? (Matt. 16:21; John 12:33) Rather, we must conclude that his great concern was because of the reproach that the death of the Son of God upon a torture stake would bring to his heavenly Father, Jehovah God.
Pardon for any duplicates.
Publications by CT Russell
Matthew 26:42
This cup -- He knew his death to be necessary, unavoidable, but it was the ignominious form of death, "even the death of the cross" (Phil. 2:8), that staggered him. R2775:2 To his perfect mind the shame and disesteem, the opprobrium, added greatly to the poignancy of his anguish. R5421:6 Representing the shame and ignominy of being executed as a blasphemer of the divine law. R5421:3,2
The same cup represented in the Communion service. R5421:3
See also comments on Matt. 26:39. Pass away from me -- He felt a great shrinking from the coming humiliation and degradation. R5421:3
Thy will be done -- Having learned it was the Father's will for him, he was content to have it so. R5421:2
Blondie
That is a very good point BB. But let's look at the latest WT for clrification. Here we see "friends" in the WT that b/c the apostles were sleeping while Jesus was praying we must conclude that after Jesus admonished them for sleeping he went off at some point and wrote down what had happened for fear it wouldn't make it in the JW's NWT of the holy scriptures. Some things must be done yourself. "Friends" where do you think the phrase "If you want something done right you must do it yourself" came from?
For some reason, this 'doctrine' irritates me more than others. When you read in the bible about Jesus' request to "let this cup pass from me", he is clearly afraid of the torture and horrific death he's about to endure and is having second thoughts about going through it, (as any human being would). Basically he's saying "...l really don't want to have to go through this, so if there's anyway I can get out of it, nows the the time."
In true fashion though, the WTS has completely twisted what Jesus was saying. Instead of acknowledging that he was deathly afraid and tried backing out, they come up with a lame excuse that he was just worried about being executed as a criminal might bring reproach upon Jehovah's name. Apparently, being whipping, beaten having your hand and feet nailed to a cross, suffering from shock and slowly dying from asphyxiation was no problem for Jesus. Bring it on!Just to show you that the morons in the Writing Dept. can't even get their own beliefs straight, compare the two statements below, both taken from the Greatest Man book, chap. 98 and 117
*** Greatest Man chap. 98 The Disciples Argue as Jesus’ Death Nears ***Realizing the source of the request, Jesus says to James and John: "You men do not know what you are asking for. Can you drink the cup that I am about to drink?""We can," they answer. Even though Jesus has just told them that he faces terrible persecution and finally execution, they apparently do not comprehend that this is what he means by "the cup" he is about to drink.
* * * *
Greatest Man chap. 117 Agony in the Garden *** (Greatest Man Book 1991)
Going a little way forward, Jesus drops to the ground and with his face to the ground begins earnestly praying: “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass away from me. Yet, not as I will, but as you will.” What does he mean? Why is he “deeply grieved, even to death”? Is he backing down from his decision to die and provide the ransom? Not at all! Jesus is not appealing to be spared from death. Even the thought of avoiding a sacrificial death, once suggested by Peter, is repugnant to him. Rather, he is in agony because he fears that the way he will soon die—as a despicable criminal—will bring reproach upon his Father’s name. He now senses that in a few hours he is going to be impaled upon a stake as the worst kind of person—a blasphemer against God! This is what sorely troubles him.
So in chap. 98, it identifies "the cup" as the "terrible persecution and finally execution" that he was going to endure, which fits in perfectly with what I said above. He was asking to be released from having to go through the persecution and execution. Yet, 19 chapters later, the Writing Dept. contradicts their own words and insists that Jesus is not asking to be released from persecution or death. Can't they get anything right?
This was one of the few times I openly debated this point in the Bookstudy. When the conductor asked "was Jesus asking to be excused from the randsom sacrifice?" I put up my hand and answered "Yes he was" and got everyone to turn to chapter 98 to prove my point. The tension in the room immediately went from 0 to 100 because I was saying something that made sense, yet it contradicted what the "Slave Class" had written. So the (flustered) conductor asked the question again. Another sister answered dutifully what was in the paragraph. For some reason, I wouldn't let it go and argued my point, stressing that if the beatings and suffering that Jesus was about to endure, was no big deal for him, how did he prove himself faithful even to death? We argued back and forth a few more times, but the conductor decided it was time to move on.
After the bookstudy, two people came up to me and quietly told me that they agreed with me, but they were afraid to say anything, lest they be seen as "going against the F&DSC."
Mary I too agree with your explanation. It makes more sense. As I said before, I thought that was always the teaching.
Jesus feeling moments of weakness before his cruel death and yet he still goes through with it. That would prove that perfect man can obey God.
But the fact that Jesus came from heaven and knew of his purpose on earth doesn't equal being the very first of God's human creation. Adam had no clue what was going on Jesus did.
So the whole ransome sacrafice doesn't add up to me in that sense. It never did.
IS THIS PERSON`RUNNING AHEAD' OF JEHOVAH'S ORGANIZATION?
