Can't get into the details, but need help and info on the topic of the Jonadab class.
The story goes like this, I have a very intelligent JW friend who I have talked to much in the past few weeks. Anyway, I started to ask him some serious questions regarding 607, False Prophecy, Deut 18, and the like. Also talked alot about "The Finished Mystery" book. I got mostly typical JW responses to all of these questions, but then I started to see something interesting. In the end he admitted (in a way) that many of these teachings (about prophecy) could very well be wrong and changed since they have before. He even admitted that 1914 could be changed, and kind of said that it could be but that the facts would still remain that this is the true organization...
At this point in the discussion most of you are more than likely wondering what kind of JW would ever admit that 1914 could be wrong. Well, it caught me off guard too. But I realized that there is something else this guy puts his faith in more than the 'standard' teachings. And that is:
The Jonadab Class
Strange as it may sound, this proves to him that the JWs alone have Gods spirit. He discussed how the Holy Spirit was dividing the JWs into two classes of Christians before the Society EVEN PRINTED ONE ARTICLE TELLING JWS WHAT THEIR HOPE WAS. He stated that this proved to him that Gods direction was upon the work, because the Society wasn't guiding the people at this time it was the Holy Spirit. He then drew a parallel to the first century and the 'circumcision' issue and how God had allready opened up for Gentiles to become christians before the governing body came to a decision (I think this is what he said, I really can't remember).
This is a very strange thing to rest faith on. I believe that he puts alot of faith in this because he sees the problems with alot of the other teachings (or the fact that they could be wrong). What JW would every give a response like this who isn't at headquarters?
If you guys could supply to me any articles and referances where I can get more info about this time peroid in the JW history that would be very helpful. I have all of the Watchtowers on CD roms, so I can look anything up. Let me know. Thanks!
Need Help!!!, Jonadab Class...
by drew sagan 29 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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drew sagan
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jwfacts
I think what he may be getting at is from the Proclaimers book. This describes the Washington convention May 31 1935. It claims half the audience already knew they were the earthly crowd when Rutherford announced it. However it is not as impressive as it first sounds.
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jv chap. 12 pp. 169-170 The Great Crowd to Live in Heaven? Or on Earth? *** Webster Roe, who was in attendance at the Washington convention, recalled that at a climactic point in his discourse, Brother Rutherford asked: "Will all those who have the hope of living forever on the earth please stand." According to Brother Roe, "over half of the audience stood." In agreement with this, The Watchtower of August 15, 1935, stated: "Now we see a company that exactly fits the description given in Revelation seven concerning the great multitude. During the past few years, and within the time when ‘this gospel of the kingdom is preached as a witness’, there have come forward great numbers (and they are still coming) who confess the Lord Jesus as their Savior and Jehovah as their God, whom they worship in spirit and in truth and joyfully serve. These are otherwise called ‘the Jonadabs’. These are being baptized in symbol, thus testifying that they . . . have taken their stand on the side of Jehovah and serve him and his King."The reason half already knew they were earthly is that for several years Rutherford had been priming them for it in the magazines. For the entire Watchtower history it was saying there was going to be an earthly class. In 1918 Rutherford was saying "Millions" were going to live on earth, but these were the non JWs. During the 20's they were saying there were 2 classes in heaven, with the less zealous being the Great Crowd.
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jv chap. 12 p. 161 The Great Crowd to Live in Heaven? Or on Earth? ***They believed that if these who were said to be of the great multitude were faithful at that time, they would be resurrected to heavenly life—not to rule as kings but to take a position before the throne. It was reasoned that they would be given such secondary positions because their love for the Lord had not been sufficiently fervent, because they had not shown enough zeal.3 years prior to the 1935 announcement the earthly crowd were already mentioned as being the Jehonadabs.
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jv chap. 12 p. 165 The Great Crowd to Live in Heaven? Or on Earth? ***The Watchtower of August 1, 1932, explained: "Jehonadab represented or foreshadowed that class of people now on the earth . . [ who] are out of harmony with Satan’s organization, who take their stand on the side of righteousness, and are the ones whom the Lord will preserve during the time of Armageddon, take them through that trouble, and give them everlasting life on the earth.In summary then, Holy Spirit did not draw them, Rutherford spent many years before that spectacular 1935 announcement priming this new class. The reason for this change was so he could introduce his new concept that only Jehovahs witnesses were to be saved onto earth. What better way to grow an organization then to say that everlasting salvation is contingent on being a follower of it.
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drew sagan
You rock! This is just what I was looking for!
Thanks so much! -
AuldSoul
Drew, jwfacts nailed it.
Jonadab was a Bible character who rode on a chariot with Jehu to battle against Baal worshippers. It had NOTHING to do with our day, except as a good story about siding with God. It is an example of JWs interpreting prophecy into the Bible where there is no prophecy.
But LONG before the Jonadab Class was "identified," the same group was certain that the Last Days began in 1799 and that the "time of trouble" (Great Tribulation) spanned from 1874 to 1914, culminating in Armageddon.
If your friend can explain why J.F. Rutherford's talk in 1918 was entitled, "The World Has Ended—Millions Now Living WIll Never Die" I'll eat my hat. The JWs were actually teaching people that the world DID end in 1914.
I wish you luck, Drew. It reads as if this guy isn't very up on his organization's history. But then, neither was I, and look at me now!
Respectfully,
AuldSoul -
drew sagan
He actually is up on Watchtower History...
Well, just the Watchtowers version of it.
Thanks again for the help guys. I'm going to be digging in deeper and pulling out these articles. So many reasons why JWs don't have access to the past, so many reasons... -
garybuss
140 JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES IN THE DIVINE PURPOSEThe Watch Tower had published the view that another group would yet finally come in God's favor who would also be blessed with spirit life in heaven but on a secondary plane to that of the joint heirs of Christ. These, it was claimed, would form the "great multitude" spoken of in Revelation 7:9, AV. Now at the 1935 convention in Washington, D.C., to which the "Jonadabs" had specially been invited in the Watchtower notice, Scriptural evidence was produced to prove conclusively that the great multitude of Revelation 7:9 was identical with the Jonadab class or the sheep class of Matthew 25:31-46. It had been recognized as early as 1923 that these sheep were an earthly group who appear in the world's "time of the end," and in 1932 that this class of sheep had been prefigured in the prophetic drama of Jehu and Jonadab, wherein King Jehu pictured Christ Jesus and the remnant of his spiritual brothers, whereas Jonadab represented the class of persons of good will associated with Christ in his destruction of apostate religion and who were destined to live on earth after Armageddon. This made it quite clear that the great multitude of Revelation 7:9 could not be a secondary spiritual class at all, but was the "other sheep" of this "time of the end."q Needless to say, this realization brought great joy to the thousands of those who were in attendance and greatly simplified Biblical doctrine and teachings.
For 1900 years the Christian congregation had specialized on its heavenly hope. True, the public speaking campaigns and the Photo-Drama of Creation had done much to arouse interest in God's purpose to restore peaceful conditions to men on the earth, and the campaign "Millions Now Living Will Never Die" from 1918 to 1921 was a step in the direction of reaching this class destined one day to populate the earth. But a gathering of them was not stressed. For that reason The Watch Tower continued to provide spiritual food designed particularly for the remnant. But now, from 1935 forward, a change began to take place. Not only must the spiritual food provided for God's people be directed to these spirit-begotten ones but it must also now supply nourishment fit to strengthen those whose Scriptural hopes were entirely earthly. No longer were the remnant going into the field looking for just the scattered sheep of Jehovah's anointed ones. Now these ministers must begin to look for the "other sheep." They must prepare for bringing to Christ's fold the many "other sheep" eagerly seeking the divine will and ready to perform what- ever was given them to do.
This proved to be a real test to some of those who claimed to be of the anointed remnant. More interested in themselves and their own salvation than they were in the outworking of God's purposes, they rebelled at this new responsibility placed upon them and some fell by the wayside, as some of the "elective elders" had done. The vast majority of the remnant, however, eagerly accepted this opportunity to manifest their love for Jehovah God and their earthly "neighbors" and took up this expanded preaching commission with the zeal characteristic of God's servants down through the centuries. But startling as this revelation was, it was nearly ten years before this new campaign was able to make good progress.
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q W 1935, pp. 227-236, 243-252; Vindication. Book Three (1932), pp. 77-80; W 1942, p. 374. *************** -
VM44
"Jonadab Class" is somewhat obsolete as a term among modern Jehovah's Witnesses.
I wonder if it was Fred Franz or Judge Rutherford who came up with using the name "Jonadab" for the "great crowd" of people associating with the JWs?
--VM44
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jwfacts
Jonadab was a Bible character who rode on a chariot with Jehu to battle against Baal worshippers. It had NOTHING to do with our day, except as a good story about siding with God. It is an example of JWs interpreting prophecy into the Bible where there is no prophecy.
The Jonadab "prophecy" is typical of Franz' clutching at straws interpretations. Following is a list of so called prophecies that prove the WTS has been the F&D slave since 1919. How does anyone swallow this time of doctrine?
Watchtower 1960 July 15 p.437 The Awake “Faithful and Discreet Slave”
“A partial list shows that the Christian remnant today since 1919 are referred to or represented in more than eighty Scriptural and prophetic designations. With more than eighty strokes by the finger of Biblical prophecy, the God of heaven has painted a vividly accurate portrait of his official servant class on earth. Footnote
Following is the partial list of Scriptural and prophetic designations applying to or being represented in the anointed remnant since 1919:
(1) Noah’s wife, Gen. 7:7; (2) angels sent to Lot, Gen. 19:15; (3) Rebekah, Gen. 24:64; (4) Joseph and Benjamin, Gen. 45:14; (5) gleanings left behind, Lev. 19:9; (6) two spies to Rahab, Josh. 2:4; (7) Barak, Judg. 4:14; (8) Jephthah, Judg. 11:34; (9) Naomi and Ruth, Ruth 2:2; (10) David’s Israelite warriors, 2 Sam. 18:1; (11) Jehu, 2 Ki. 10:11, 15; (12) Mordecai and Esther, Esther 4:13; (13) Job, Job 42:10, 13; (14) King’s daughter, Ps. 45:13; (15) men of loving-kindness, Ps. 50:5; (16) Intimate group, Ps. 89:7; (17) Shear-jashub, Isa. 7:3; (18) light of the nations, Isa. 60:3; (19) big trees of righteousness, Isa. 61:3; (20) ministers of our God, Isa. 61:6; (21) cluster preserved, Isa. 65:8; (22) servants called by another name, Isa. 65:15; (23) men trembling at God’s word, Isa. 66:5; (24) new nation born, Isa. 66:8 (25) Jeremiah, Jer. 1:10; (26) Jehovah’s people in the new covenant, Jer. 31:33; (27) man clothed in linen, Ezek. 9:2; (28) dwellers in the center of the earth, Ezek. 38:12; (29) trees by the river, Ezek. 47:7; (30) fishers, Ezek. 47:10; (31) the host of heaven, Dan. 8:10; (32) sanctuary restored (cleansed), Dan. 8:14; (33) they that are wise, Dan. 11:33; (34) many in the dust awake to everlasting life, Dan. 12:2; (35) all flesh receiving the spirit, Joel 2:28; (36) Jonah, Jon. 3:1-3; (37) apple of Jehovah’s eye, Zech. 2:8; (38) Joshua the high priest, Zech. 3:3, 4; (39) a Jew, Zech. 8:23; (40) sons of Levi, Mal. 3:3; (41) wheat, Matt. 13:25; (42) sons of the kingdom, Matt. 13:38; (43) workers for the vineyard, Matt. 20:1; (44) those invited to marriage feast, Matt. 22:3-14; (45) chosen ones, Matt. 24:22; (46) eagles, Matt. 24:28; (47) faithful and discreet slave, Matt. 24:45; (48) discreet virgins, Matt. 25:2; (49) brothers of the king, Matt. 25:40; (50) little flock of sheep, Luke 12:32; (51) older brother of the prodigal, Luke 15:25; (52) beggar Lazarus, Luke 16:20; (53) branches of the vine, John 15:4; (54) royal palace of David, Acts 15:16; (55) heirs with Christ, Rom. 8:17; (56) the remnant, Rom. 11:5; (57) branches in the olive tree, Rom. 11:24; (58) holy ones of saints, 1 Cor. 6:2; Rev. 16:6; (59) temple, 1 Cor. 6:19; (60) new creation, 2 Cor. 5:17; (61) ambassadors for Christ, 2 Cor. 5:20; (62) congregation of God, Gal. 1:13; (63) part of Abraham’s seed, Gal. 3:29; (64) Israel of God, Gal. 6:16; (65) body of Christ, Eph. 1:22, 23; (66) soldiers of Christ Jesus, 2 Tim. 2:3; (67) house built by Christ, Heb. 3:6; (68) holy priesthood, 1 Pet. 2:5; (69) holy nation, 1 Pet. 2:9; (70) association of brothers, 1 Pet. 2:17; (71) seven congregations, Rev. 1:20; (72) twenty-four persons of advanced age, Rev. 4:4; (73) spiritual Israel, Rev. 7:4; (74) locusts, Rev. 9:3, (75) two witnesses, Rev. 11:3; (76) two olive trees, Rev. 11:4; (77) seed of the woman, Rev. 12:17; (78) trees of life, Rev. 22:2; (79) the bride of Christ, Rev. 22:17; 19:7; (80) Jehovah’s witnesses, Isa. 43:10.”
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Atlantis
Watchtower-1934-February-15-p.-249 "The name "Jehovah's Witnesses applies specifically to God's anointed ones who have been taken out of the world and made witnesses for Jehovah, and these alone bear the new name. The Jonadab class are of those who "hear" the message of truth and who must say to those in their hearing: "Come. And let him that heareth say, Come." "Should a Jonadab be made a member of the service committee and appointed as a leader of study meetings? "Be it noted that the obligation is laid upon the priestly class to do the leading or reading of the law of instruction to the people. (Mal. 2:7) Therefore, where there is a company, of Jehovah's witnesses, that is, the anointed ones, the leader of a study should be selected from amongst the anointed, and likewise those of the service committee should be taken from the anointed." http://images.hostmypic.info/469e3aa68f.jpg ***************************************************************************************** Watchtower-1938-February-15-p.23 The servants of the Lord had no thought then of proclaiming the message of the kingdom to a people of good will who would look for life on earth and who would be spared during the battle of the great day of God Almighty and who would ultimately form the great multitude. Today some of the Jonadabs show greater faith than many of the prominent ones supposed to be the "servant" class. http://images.hostmypic.info/ecd6fc06df.jpg ***************************************************************************************** Watchtower-1938-October-15-p.312 "True, the Jonadabs are not counted members of the organization, but their protection and safety is from Jehovah God by and through his organization of which Christ Jesus is the Head." http://www.badongo.com/pic/278921 ***************************************************************************************** THIS VIEW CHANGED IN 1942 Watchtower-1942-July-1-p.199 "Hence nothing these dear "sheep" could do could take pre-eminence over what is the ordained chief work of the remnant, and therefore the "other sheep" must be the active companions of the remnant in doing the "one thing" of bearing witness to the truth concerning Jehovah and his Kingdom. Thus these "other sheep" become witnesses for Him, on the same wise that the faithful men before Christ's death, from John the Baptist all the way back to Abel, were the never-quitting witnesses for Jehovah." http://images.hostmypic.info/2978bd6e20.jpg ***************************************************************************************** Above information was taken from footnotes and pages found in the "Proclaimers Book" pages 83-84-169-170-165-166 Page-83 http://images.hostmypic.info/372b78479d.jpg Page-84 http://images.hostmypic.info/a9cb71ea28.jpg Page-169 http://images.hostmypic.info/8993e3833e.jpg Page-170 http://images.hostmypic.info/0ab7dd35d5.jpg Page-165 http://images.hostmypic.info/6cd38f1673.jpg Page-166 http://images.hostmypic.info/484cab28bc.jpg ***************************************************************************************** OTHER REFERENCES: Vindication-3-page-77-78 http://suprfile.com/src/1/2yoohnq/vin-770001.jpg http://suprfile.com/get.php?id=2yoprtc Send [pm] if more scans are needed!-Nevada-
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sspo
Following is the partial list of Scriptural and prophetic designations applying to or being represented in the anointed remnant since 1919: (1) Noah’s wife, Gen. 7:7; (2) angels sent to Lot, Gen. 19:15; (3) Rebekah, Gen. 24:64; (4) Joseph and Benjamin, Gen. 45:14; (5) gleanings left behind, Lev. 19:9; (6) two spies to Rahab, Josh. 2:4; (7) Barak, Judg. 4:14; (8) Jephthah, Judg. 11:34; (9) Naomi and Ruth, Ruth 2:2; (10) David’s Israelite warriors, 2 Sam. 18:1; (11) Jehu, 2 Ki. 10:11, 15; (12) Mordecai and Esther, Esther 4:13; (13) Job, Job 42:10, 13; (14) King’s daughter, Ps. 45:13; (15) men of loving-kindness, Ps. 50:5; (16) Intimate group, Ps. 89:7; (17) Shear-jashub, Isa. 7:3; (18) light of the nations, Isa. 60:3; (19) big trees of righteousness, Isa. 61:3; (20) ministers of our God, Isa. 61:6; (21) cluster preserved, Isa. 65:8; (22) servants called by another name, Isa. 65:15; (23) men trembling at God’s word, Isa. 66:5; (24) new nation born, Isa. 66:8 (25) Jeremiah, Jer. 1:10; (26) Jehovah’s people in the new covenant, Jer. 31:33; (27) man clothed in linen, Ezek. 9:2; (28) dwellers in the center of the earth, Ezek. 38:12; (29) trees by the river, Ezek. 47:7; (30) fishers, Ezek. 47:10; (31) the host of heaven, Dan. 8:10; (32) sanctuary restored (cleansed), Dan. 8:14; (33) they that are wise, Dan. 11:33; (34) many in the dust awake to everlasting life, Dan. 12:2; (35) all flesh receiving the spirit, Joel 2:28; (36) Jonah, Jon. 3:1-3; (37) apple of Jehovah’s eye, Zech. 2:8; (38) Joshua the high priest, Zech. 3:3, 4; (39) a Jew, Zech. 8:23; (40) sons of Levi, Mal. 3:3; (41) wheat, Matt. 13:25; (42) sons of the kingdom, Matt. 13:38; (43) workers for the vineyard, Matt. 20:1; (44) those invited to marriage feast, Matt. 22:3-14; (45) chosen ones, Matt. 24:22; (46) eagles, Matt. 24:28; (47) faithful and discreet slave, Matt. 24:45; (48) discreet virgins, Matt. 25:2; (49) brothers of the king, Matt. 25:40; (50) little flock of sheep, Luke 12:32; (51) older brother of the prodigal, Luke 15:25; (52) beggar Lazarus, Luke 16:20; (53) branches of the vine, John 15:4; (54) royal palace of David, Acts 15:16; (55) heirs with Christ, Rom. 8:17; (56) the remnant, Rom. 11:5; (57) branches in the olive tree, Rom. 11:24; (58) holy ones of saints, 1 Cor. 6:2; Rev. 16:6; (59) temple, 1 Cor. 6:19; (60) new creation, 2 Cor. 5:17; (61) ambassadors for Christ, 2 Cor. 5:20; (62) congregation of God, Gal. 1:13; (63) part of Abraham’s seed, Gal. 3:29; (64) Israel of God, Gal. 6:16; (65) body of Christ, Eph. 1:22, 23; (66) soldiers of Christ Jesus, 2 Tim. 2:3; (67) house built by Christ, Heb. 3:6; (68) holy priesthood, 1 Pet. 2:5; (69) holy nation, 1 Pet. 2:9; (70) association of brothers, 1 Pet. 2:17; (71) seven congregations, Rev. 1:20; (72) twenty-four persons of advanced age, Rev. 4:4; (73) spiritual Israel, Rev. 7:4; (74) locusts, Rev. 9:3, (75) two witnesses, Rev. 11:3; (76) two olive trees, Rev. 11:4; (77) seed of the woman, Rev. 12:17; (78) trees of life, Rev. 22:2; (79) the bride of Christ, Rev. 22:17; 19:7; (80) Jehovah’s witnesses, Isa. 43:10.”
Have you guys noticed that since the death of Franz, new books and study article are not as complicated as they used to be?
We used to beleive all of this crap that he wrote and how every thing in the bible had double or triple meaning and application.
It used to wear me out trying to remember this crap, who was what and who did it apply to.
Talking about a loving Creator that would allow himself to be found, it sure was complicated, thanks to the watchtower.
