by greendawn 12 Replies latest jw friends
Kid-A,
(edited)
Thanks for those stats. I can't comment on greendawn or anyone elses personal views but I don't believe you have to become Christian to be saved. That is the narrow salvation view. There are some Christians who do not share this view. Just wanted to state that for the record. But I don't think greendawn meant to put anyone elses beliefs down with this thread. Lilly
Obviously this will be an astonishing event but above all it's a landmark for the end which will not come unless this Jewish return en mass happens first, not to Israel (Palestine) but to Christ. How did the JWs miss this?
Oh have no fear...the Witnesses never missed this scripture. But in true Dub fashion, they've taken a scripture that clearly is talking about fleshly Israel (in other words---Jews) and apply it to themselves. After all, this scripture in Romans sounds as though it's speaking favourably of Jews.....and we all know that God now hates the Jews almost as much as Hitler did. Besides, if they don't apply this scripture to "spiritual Israel", that would mean there's a group of people outside of Witnesses that somehow have God's approval, and there's no way they'll allow for that. So here's the WTS bizarre interpretation of Romans 11: 25,26:
*** w85 1/15 pp. 5-6 Armageddon, the Middle East, and the Bible *** Paul does say at Romans 11:25, 26: "A dulling of sensibilities has happened in part to Israel until the full number of people of the nations has come in, and in this manner all Israel will be saved." Was Paul predicting a future mass conversion of the Jews? How could that be so, since he himself indicated that only a remnant of Jews would accept Christ? (Romans 11:5) True, Paul did say that the Jews would experience a spiritual "dulling of sensibilities" until "the full number" of Gentiles came into the Christian congregation. However, Greek scholar Richard Lenski shows that here the word "until" does not necessarily imply some later conversion (even though that's exactly what the scripture is saying). Paul is actually saying that the natural Jews’ sensibilities would remain ‘dull’ right down to the end. God, however, wisely completes "the full number" of spiritual Israel (144,000) by bringing believing Gentiles into the Christian congregation. "And in this manner [not by the Jewish nation’s change of heart] all [spiritual] Israel will be saved."
I've often said that the Governing Body takes scriptures that speak favourably about Israel, and apply it to themselves, but whenever it speaks negatively about them, they apply it to either the Jews of today, or "Christendom" and nowhere is that more evident that the above mentioned quotes from the Craptower.
As anyone can see, there is absolutely nothing in this verse to even hint that the later part is talking about "spiritual Israel", but that of course, has never stopped the GB from inserting words that were never there to better fit their own preconceived doctrine. Not only does Jehovah apparently hate the Jews now, but He apparently has also reneged on His promise to Abraham that He would give His decendents the land forever:
*** w85 1/15 pp. 5-6 Armageddon, the Middle East, and the Bible *** What, though, about the land on which the State of Israel is situated? Does God have some sort of special interest in it? Many, such as Protestant theologian William Hurst, think so. Quoting Genesis 13:14, 15, he reminds us that God promised that he would give this land to Abraham’s seed "for ever."—King James Version..............God merely told Abraham that his offspring would occupy this land, not forever, but for an "indefinite" period of time. (Genesis 13:14, 15) By rejecting Jesus Christ, they lost all claim to this land—and God’s protection.
So not to worry------the Dubs in no way, shape or form will admit that the Jews have any favour with God, even when the bible says they do.
For the record greendawn, 67% (i.e. the vast majority) of the human beings on this planet do not accept Jesus as messiah or saviour of any kind. If you honestly believe that your god will annihilate (or send to hell) the majority of humanity who dont happen to share your minority opinion about "salvation", I dont see your belief construct as any morally or ethically superior to that of the typical JW.
The God of the bible who is the basis for biblical discussions destroyed everyone who would not or could not get into the ark. So he doesnt have any problem destroying large quantities of people who somehow dont get or do not properly respond to his messages.
