jaguarbass, Thanks! What's a Jaguar Bass? Is that a guitar? I had a friend that played a Fender Jaguar 6 string. I liked it but it was a little too fast for my big hands, I bought a Jazzmaster in, I think, 1964. I still have it.
Mary, I wished I had half of the resources back in the 60's that I have today. I think a couple chapters in my living book would have ended differently. Keep up the great posts. I love em!
JW wants to have a Bible study with me!
by moshe 39 Replies latest jw friends
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garybuss
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drew sagan
just history
Showing them how their 'mother' dosn't agree with secular history might not possibly go well. Since many JWs are taught that secular history disagrees with the Bible, they think it is an issue between the Bible and History. Going point by point through the information in 'gentile times' book may be the only way to defeat their logic.
I tend to think that just flat out lies and contradictions in the literature works the best. Everytime I mention something that I found in the magazines he gets quiet and stops speaking dead in his tracks because what I didn't line up with what he thought was true. The magazines are powerful, they are the Bible according to Jehovah's Witnesses. The next conversation I have with this Elder I plan on only using photocopies of the literature, nothing else. At the end of the conversation, he can have a stack of quotes he can take home with him.
So you can use the Bible when talking, their Bible (the Watchtower).
Good luck in whatever method you choose!
-drew -
moshe
I have an old Watchtower from 1920- with the cross and crown logo. is there anyway I could introduce that into the discussion without sounding the apostate alarm?
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whyizit
If you have all of your ducks in a row and know how to merely ask the right questions at the right time, you could provide them with the mental freedom that you now have. Without arguing, without insulting them, but just by merely asking questions and pointing out facts like you did on their first visit. God bless you either way!
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Lady Liberty
Dear Moshe,
I agree with WHIZ as he said:
If you have all of your ducks in a row and know how to merely ask the right questions at the right time, you could provide them with the mental freedom that you now have. Without arguing, without insulting them, but just by merely asking questions and pointing out facts like you did on their first visit. God bless you either way!
Perhaps you could say you had always shyed away from the Witnesses because you had heard that they follow Russel who was a Freemason. The more research you did you found that he used ALOT of Free Mason symbols...then show him the old Watchtower. (If you read my story my first topic I ever posted, it may give you some ideas. As this was the very route that lead me OUT!!) I am not into lying, but because of what is at stake a little spiritual warefare fired back at them in a subtle way may be effective. I wish you much success! Please keep us posted.
Sincerely,
Lady Liberty
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drew sagan
The guys over at witnessinc.com have what they call 'document packets' that you can use to get through to a JW. I believe that each packet has over 100 documented lies and contradictions straight from their publications, no commentary. I ordered one to Witness to a JW, it should be here in a day or two. I'll let you ,know if it is worth getting. One lie or contradiction is good, but not nearly enough. They have to see it is part of a pattern. I like the idea that after you show them all of the contridictions in the literature, you give them all of the photocopies so they can go and research it for themselves.
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xjwms
Hav-a wt study with them
using Blondies review
One or Two weeks.....tops
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moshe
using Blondies review
One or Two weeks.....tops
Yes, That is a great idea!!- She usually posts it on a Saturday, I could tell him I want to go over the WT before I attend the KH- just to be sure I understand everything. I have so many good ideas from everyone that I will need to develop some new identies to use them all. I'll save this one for later and a really good WT article.
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VM44
moshe,
I say don't waste your time with them.
The JWs do not realize that they are intellectually dishonest, and they won't believe that they are even if you prove it in several different ways to them.
The Watchtower has not found a source that gives a negative comment about "ice core sampling" and so they won't write any articles about that subject. If they do bring up the subject it might get people researching it and finding out things that the Watchtower doesn't want them to know about.
BTW, the book they left you is online at reexamine.org at this link, http://www.reexamine.info/00s/2005_what_does_the_bible_really_teach.pdf
The whole purpose of the literature that the Watchtower publishes is to get people to have the viewpoints on subjects that the Watchtower wants them to have.
Thus the Watchtower writes propaganda, to get people to think the Watchtower way.
As they are writing propaganda, they have made up their own self-styled standards as to how to write articles. Their "standards" do not include accurate quoting of sources, avoiding selective quoting, not using circular reasoning, and avoiding using straw man argumentation.
This is why the Watchtower doesn't think providing references is important in their literature, their purpose when selectively quoting a source is to influence the reader's thinking a certain way. So if the subject is brought up again sometime in the future, the reader's thoughts will be influenced by what he recalls reading in the magazines.
The reader thinks he has his own viewpoint concerning a matter, but in reality, his viewpoint is the Watchtower's!
This is also why the Watchtower and Awake articles are written simply and don't go into any great details on any particular subject. They don't need to.
This is also the reason that the Watchtower does not like higher education, it disrupts the Watchtower's programming of the individual!
People usually don't start to question the Watchtower Organization until something personal hits them hard in life, and then they see how the Organization responds. Then their eyes start to open.
Until that "something" event happens to a JW reasoning with them will be like "banging your head against a wall".
Just my early Monday morning thoughts.
--VM44 -
bebu
Moshe,
If you want to introduce any "apostate" looking material into your conversation, let them know that it came from a friend who learned you were going to study with the witnesses, and who wanted you to look at this info as well before making a decision.
Obviously, the question will arise "is your friend an ex-JW?" and you can say something like "No, but I think he has a family member in and he checked into the religion to find out more about it."
Let him know that you are interested in being even-handed, and want to have his help to be sure that these claims are real and not just urban legends. Ask whether he might be able to check the resources himself, since he should have better access to documents than you do.
I think it is worth your time to give him a chance to see the light. And even if it is not "worth" your time, it is still a gracious thing to do.
bebu