I've got to be honest with you; I've concluded that trying to convert a happy JW is cruel and wrong, and trying to help an unhappy JW is pointless. If she's happy, who are you to spoil that for her? If she's unhappy she can only make the break in her own time and under her own power and initiative. It took me fifteen years, and in that time anytime somebody did anything that would have helped the journey I'd go to every meeting for six months to shake the demons of apostacy away. Every time you say anything at all her persecution button gets pushed and it makes her that much more determined to stay. Leave her be and get on with your life.
Whats left for me to say?
by KW13 44 Replies latest jw friends
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diamondblue1974
I completely agree with Devilsnok on this. Its natural that you care enormously for your mother but sometimes you have to take a more philosophical view of her faith and chosen path. Of course we would like nothing more than for our parents to be rescued from the evil clutches of the WTS but for some the organisation is their lives and in it they find their social structure and reason for life. To take that away would leave them psychologically at risk and further somewhat unhappy. Keep feeding her titbits every now and again but perhaps try to be less direct; it might draw you both together. DB74Your mum has had a turbulent life full of ups and downs, the one place she has found stability (and probably a degree of happiness) in her life is in the truth. For her the "Truth" and her way in life is something that represents stability and order as opposed to the chaos that was her life before she found the truth.
Most people that turn become dubs do so because they are deeply unhappy in their normal day to day lives and what you are effectively doing by asking her to leave is to return to the chaotic world that she once left behind. A lot of people just can't do that.
Leaving the truth means that she would probably piss off her husband and may even loose him. Is she willing to do that? You and I both know he's a d*ck but she obviously feels something for him.
As for trying to turn a dub I think you are going about it the wrong way. Most here will agree that while dubs if we had cold hard anti org facts thrown at us we would shut up our ears and ignore them. We wouldn't listen. Your mum is in dub mode, shes not going to pay attention to anything you have to say about the org because she thinks you are under the influence of Satan.
The only way you can reach people like her is on an emotional level, you cant reason with people like her. She simply has too much to loose, you'll be leaving home in a few years and if you had your way you may well destroy her marriage and then where would she be, single and living on her own again.
My advice would be to leave her to her own life. Let her find out the truth in her own time rather than ramming it down her throat and remember, its a cliche but, you can take a horse to water but you cant make it drink.
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KW13
Dear KW13,
Hang in there!! Please try not to get discouraged. It took me two years before I would listen to anything my own parents were trying to show me. When her hearts ready, she will come around. She may just need time to absorb all that you have alread given her. Don't give up.
Sincerely,
Lady Liberty
Yeh, if i try and talk at all now about stuff, imma take it steady and use some strong points that will stay in her head but do it less often now over a longer period of time and not pursue them too far.
Thank youKW13: I know it is hard to have someone you love trapped in that org prison. My mom is also there.
For years I tried to bring up topics to get her to think, be non-defensive but ask questions, everyting. Eventually I realized that the best thing I could do for the both of us is just love her for who she is. It's hard KW - but your mom will make her own way in life. To do the best for the both of you is to just love her, as she is, and accept her for who she is - and just be there.
I do love her and i do say to her when she asks if i am trying to convert her that its nothing at all to do with that, i just want to make sure she's made an informed decision. She kinda accepts that, sometimes she is receptive and wants to get right into a chat - others she won't and overall she appears to be making good steps forward and then leaps back which is understandable.
Thank you for your kind wordsKarl,
A couple of points
Your mum has had a turbulent life full of ups and downs, the one place she has found stability (and probably a degree of happiness) in her life is in the truth. For her the "Truth" and her way in life is something that represents stability and order as opposed to the chaos that was her life before she found the truth.
Most people that turn to become dubs do so because they are deeply unhappy in their normal day to day lives and what you are effectively doing by asking her to leave is to return to the chaotic world that she once left behind. A lot of people just can't do that.
Leaving the truth means that she would probably piss off her husband and may even loose him. Is she willing to do that? You and I both know he's a d*ck but she obviously feels something for him.
As for trying to turn a dub I think you are going about it the wrong way. Most here will agree that while dubs if we had cold hard anti org facts thrown at us we would shut up our ears and ignore them. We wouldn't listen. Your mum is in dub mode, shes not going to pay attention to anything you have to say about the org because she thinks you are under the influence of Satan.
The only way you can reach people like her is on an emotional level, you cant reason with people like her. She simply has too much to loose, you'll be leaving home in a few years and if you had your way you may well destroy her marriage and then where would she be, single and living on her own again.
My advice would be to leave her to her own life. Let her find out the truth in her own time rather than ramming it down her throat and remember, its a cliche but, you can take a horse to water but you cant make it drink.
Hey, thanks for the advice here. She actually hates her husband right now and has admitted if it was possible she wouldn't of married him but now she is 'bound to him'. Each day at home for her is a trial, between me and stepdad and she can see its him that doesn't help the situations.
I will think about these things carefully.I completely agree with Devilsnok on this. Its natural that you care enormously for your mother but sometimes you have to take a more philosophical view of her faith and chosen path. Of course we would like nothing more than for our parents to be rescued from the evil clutches of the WTS but for some the organisation is their lives and in it they find their social structure and reason for life. To take that away would leave them psychologically at risk and further somewhat unhappy. Keep feeding her titbits every now and again but perhaps try to be less direct; it might draw you both together. DB74
Right'o Gary
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freedomloverr
kw -
I didn't have time to read all the posts but I think in my gut you need to back off and just leave it alone for awhile. EVEN if she brings something up, just give a nonchalant yes or no answer and leave it be. I can't imagine how difficult it would be to here that I've been so wrong for so long from my CHILD! It's got to be a hard pill to swallow for her.
live your life and just be happy. I honestly think we apostates give ourselves too much credit sometimes for "getting people out." It's a choice each individual makes on their own. All you can do is be happy with yourself. -
Devilsnok
Hey, thanks for the advice here. She actually hates her husband right now and has admitted if it was possible she wouldn't of married him but now she is 'bound to him'.
Oh you should of said, this is EASY...
Ok get yer hands on a pair of woman's panties, SMALL ONES ! Huge Bridget Jone's knickers wont work for this... and don't nick them from someones washing line or you'll end up on the sexual offenders list and knowing you you'll tell the police i told you to do it as well.
Ok now you have to mess the panties up, I'm not gonna go into details here, use yer imagination and forget everything the youth book said lol
Now be a bit cunning and plant them either in the pocket of a pair of his trousers that your mums gonna wash or for maximum effect plant them in his book bag just before a meeting, preferably in the pages of his bible. When your mum catches sight of these soiled panties she will flip, trust me on this alright lol . And viola one huge crack in their marriage !
Remember all is fair in love and war
(takes tongue out of cheek)
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luna2
Mmmm, there ya go, Karl, advice from the Red Devil on how to plant incriminating evidence in your stepfather's bookbag. He's likely to pull out his songbook at the meeting and fling the panties into the row in front of him. Oh ho, think of the scandal!
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KW13
kw -
I didn't have time to read all the posts but I think in my gut you need to back off and just leave it alone for awhile. EVEN if she brings something up, just give a nonchalant yes or no answer and leave it be. I can't imagine how difficult it would be to here that I've been so wrong for so long from my CHILD! It's got to be a hard pill to swallow for her.
live your life and just be happy. I honestly think we apostates give ourselves too much credit sometimes for "getting people out." It's a choice each individual makes on their own. All you can do is be happy with yourself.i think maybe your right, i just gotta stick to that lol.
Oh you should of said, this is EASY...
Ok get yer hands on a pair of woman's panties, SMALL ONES ! Huge Bridget Jone's knickers wont work for this... and don't nick them from someones washing line or you'll end up on the sexual offenders list and knowing you you'll tell the police i told you to do it as well.
Ok now you have to mess the panties up, I'm not gonna go into details here, use yer imagination and forget everything the youth book said lol
Now be a bit cunning and plant them either in the pocket of a pair of his trousers that your mums gonna wash or for maximum effect plant them in his book bag just before a meeting, preferably in the pages of his bible. When your mum catches sight of these soiled panties she will flip, trust me on this alright lol . And viola one huge crack in their marriage !
Remember all is fair in love and war
(takes tongue out of cheek)
mmmmmmmm...
Mmmm, there ya go, Karl, advice from the Red Devil on how to plant incriminating evidence in your stepfather's bookbag. He's likely to pull out his songbook at the meeting and fling the panties into the row in front of him. Oh ho, think of the scandal!i might actually do it lol
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JWdaughter
That marriage will go whatever way it goes. . .but it is doubtful that proof of his cheating will change her mind about the borg. It will probably cement her in further, and she would either stand by him or get all her JW friends to rally and that would just pull the web around her tighter. Ouch.
As the mother of two teenagers-be as close to her as possible w/o creeping out anyone. Love her, be a nice kid who shows love, no matter how far you get out of the Borg. Be the best darn teenager ever(w/o it having any relation to your religion-be close to mom) Let her know that she can depend on you to stand by her NO MATTER WHAT and get that kind of assurance FROM her. Because mommy promises matter to moms alot. Speaking as a mom, I would never reject a child. I know the borg requires it when a kid leaves, but when push comes to shove-the woman is your mom, and often, pushing and shoving a mom away from her kids is the death of a relationship. It ruins plenty of marriages. Even if she stays in, your relationship to her can be a loving and supportive one that she will always feel safe in-and know that she has 'a place to go'.
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Devilsnok
mmmmmmmm...
i might actually do it lol
Mmmm, there ya go, Karl, advice from the Red Devil on how to plant incriminating evidence in your stepfather's bookbag. He's likely to pull out his songbook at the meeting and fling the panties into the row in front of him. Oh ho, think of the scandal!That's positivly satanic
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luna2
A lacy, red thong should do the trick. (not that I'm encouraging you or anything. )