What happened 5 or 6 years ago to get so many of us out of JW? (page 2)

drew sagan

I didn't get out in 2000, I had actually just gotten in. The differace for me is that this organization has become very weak, and so I entered into a weak organization. Their effect didn't last long. So within a few years all that they promised began to look more and more like BS. It took a while, but only 4 years after I was baptized I was starting on the path out.

Lady Lee

I suspect a few things were going on.

The information explosion on the internet became more accissible to people. JWs were searching at home and at work gathering whatever information they could. And they were beginning to see the holes.
The sexual abuse scandal was hitting the media. When victims and their families began to realize their problem wasn't just an isolated case but rather a larger systemic problem many chose to leave
The UN NGO status of the WTS was made easily available on the internet
Some brilliant ex-JWs were systematically shredding WT dosctine and putting it on the net for all to see. And they were ab le to show proofs of how the WTS hid its dirty laundry

I think added to the above are things like:

People getting tired of the daily grind. Many had waited for 1975 and then later dates. The constant pressure top do more and the WTS' guilt inducing litterature and talks tok its toll.
Young ones were leaving as soon as they were old enough to be out the door and start directing their own lives
Prospective converts could get on the net and access the other side of the WTS' squeaky clean facade/presentation.
Due in large part to the internet websites like Watchtower Observer, H2O, Quotes, Freeminds, CAIC, JWD, and so many other sites have broken though the WTS' stranglehold of information. TheWTS' editing of their books, bound volumes and now CDs became known to many.

The WTS has become their own worst enemy. If you rewrite too much history eventually you will get caught.

And they have been caught in a few too many scandals

Seeker4

I just went back and re-examined jgnat's "Missing In Action" (MIA) chart on an earlier thread.

The concept of MIA is the difference in the number getting baptized and the number of average publishers for any given year. For example, say in 2006 there are 6,000,000 active Witnesses total, and 300,000 get baptized. You'd think, a part from deaths, that the 2007 total would be somewhere near 6,300,000 active JWs. But that is never the case.

It's more likely that the 2007 total will be 6,150,000, with 150,000 MIA. Some of those 150,000 will have died, but most will be people who have left the Witnesses. In other words, 1 Witness is leaving for each 2 that get baptized. It's not 100% accurate, but it's a pretty good system.

What jgnat's chart shows, going back to the 1960s, is there was, surprisingly a spike in the number MIA in 1972-3, NOT surprisingly in 1976-79. Then pretty steady all through the 1980s, until we get another spike, the biggest ever MIA in 1996-97, and then again in 1999-2000.

Guess what? The chart shows the MIA figures are on their way up again.

S4

juni

LADY LEE SAID:

The WTS has become their own worst enemy. If you rewrite too much history eventually you will get caught.
And they have been caught in a few too many scandals

I STARTED STUDYING IN 1970 AND BAPTIZED IN 1971. THE ORGANIZATION WAS DIFFERENT THEN.

THEY STILL HAD THEIR "RULES", BUT NOT THE SCANDALS WIDELY KNOWN AS THEY ARE NOW.

ALSO, THEY HAVE BECOME LIKE THE OTHER RELIGIONS THAT THEY DENOUNCED - ESPECIALLY WITH THE ISSUE OF DEMANDING GIVING MONEY FOR THEIR CAUSE.

FOR ME IT WASN'T JUST ONE ISSUE, BUT AN ONGOING THING. AS THEY SET MORE RULES PEOPLE GOT MORE JUDGMENTAL AND BACK BITING AND HYPOCRITICAL. DEPENDED WHO YOU WERE IN THE CONG. IF YOU FELL IN LINE THEY LEFT YOU ALONE AND YOU WERE VIEWED AS SPIRITUALLY MATURE.

JUNI

garybuss

S4, I still think the relationship between the baptized number and the publisher number is a fallacy. They aren't related and one can't be used to analyze the other. At most one figure is just "interesting" to the other. For example, I was a publisher number 6 years before I was a baptized number.

The best walkaway [inactive] analysis I have seen was done by Knorr in a yearbook. In that analysis he added up years and years of baptism numbers and just used one year publisher number. To determine how many publishers there "should" be, I first have to determine how many publishers there "should" be. I can't do that by analyzing publisher numbers.

luna2

The generation change was what did it for me. I clung to the org for another five years or so but that blatant "fix" of something that they'd been prophesying for years, just when it was about to become apparent that they were totally wrong, opened up a big hole in that brick wall they'd built in my mind.

Seemed like a lot of other shit hit the fan after that too with the UN information, their horrendus policy of covering up for pehdophiles in the org, and their oddly slippery and incomprehensible blood policy that no one can quite get a grip on.

I suppose that people are waking up all the time. Seems like after you are in a while you can't help but notice the failed prophecies that have built up, quietly rotting, in the corner...that they flip flop positions on important life decisions every few years...or that they cleverly talk out of both sides of their face in order to evade responsibility for their stupid pronouncements. Hmmm, not quite what you expected of an organization "inspired" or "directed" by the Supreme Omnipotent Creator of the Universe.

Its almost like you have to live the JW life for five, ten, twenty years or more before the inadequacies and failures of it sink in and you begin to wonder what smells so bad.

OUTLAW

I`ve watched this for decades..Every generation gets out because they see the WBTS bullsh*t..History will continue to repeat itself...OUTLAW

exwitless

My husband and I just took our DA letter to the post office today. We knew our hearts haven't been in it for awhile, but come to think of it, it was about 5-6 years ago when "our love cooled off". I attribute it to the lack of any forward progress, just constant rehashing of the same old issues. Since there was really nothing new to say, they just seemed to want to occupy themselves by making new rules or changing old ones. We began to feel like nothing we ever did was good enough, and we always came away from meetings feeling bad about ourselves. You know how they always claim you should never compare yourself with another witness, because as long as you're doing your best, that's what matters? Well, in the next sentence they would begin describing a single Sister with 10 kids, worked 3 jobs, walked 50 miles one-way to the KH, was blind and only had one leg, and still managed to Pioneer! (I'm exaggerating, but probably not far from the truth). Even though we are young, we were physically beat to death trying to keep up with the meetings, service, etc. When we started slacking off meetings, we began to feel how nice it was to come home on a Thursday evening and not kill ourselves to hurry to the KH to get emotionally whipped again. I also felt that the meetings were so devoid of joy and emotion, we may as well have been at a meeting for a business annual financial report or something. There was no joy or refreshing feeling after a meeting, no matter how much they try to pound that idea in our heads (attempting to use the power of suggestion?)I could go on and on, but these are my initial thoughts.

JT

For example, say in 2006 there are 6,000,000 active Witnesses total, and 300,000 get baptized. You'd think, a part from deaths, that the 2007 total would be somewhere near 6,300,000 active JWs. But that is never the case.

#######

keep in mind the wt has a weird accounting system for members,

don't confuse publisher with Baptized jw they are not the same and never will be

the 300,000 baptixe were part of the 6000000 anyway

no change in number of publishers

wt style of counting folks

Seeker4

Gary and JT,

I know the system has flaws, but I also see that in years where I KNOW there were serious loses, 1976-79 and 1995-7, the chart reflects that.

We only have these two numbers to work with - we know the number of average publishers for a year, and we also know the number baptized (assuming no fiddling with the figures by the WTS, which I have no reason to believe they do). And as I said, they do reflect the years we know there were lots of people leaving.

And exwitless - I remember that sister. The walk back home from the Kingdom Hall was 75 miles, and all uphill. I also think she had a limp in that one good leg!

Good luck with your DA letter.

S4

What happened 5 or 6 years ago to get so many of us out of JW?

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