American ignorance and the loss of American freedoms

by free2beme 13 Replies latest jw friends

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  free2beme

  I am forever in amazement at how much Americans wine about all that the government has done since 9/11 to prevent more terror attacks. They wine because they have to do fingerprints now in banks, or how much extra time it takes to get through airport lines. I work in the telecommunication industry, and I can not believe how much of a big deal people made of the phone tapping done by our government. I have little old men who call to complain that they think George W Bush is listening to their calls, daily! Like our government cares what a 72 year old man on social security is doing on the phone. If you try to explain that they are more likely to listen to people with large amount of collect calls from known terrorist states, or who make large amounts of calls to these countries, or use fraud id to set up accounts. They will not listen, they just know George W Bush is listening to their phone calls. My spouse works in a financial institute and people complain all the time, about all the stricter restrictions placed on them. Whining seems to be the true American affect of the war on Terror.

  Yet you know what would happen, if a terror attack happened again .............................. we would all complain that our government did not do enough.
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  JeffT

  I agree that Americans are remarkably ignorant about how their own government is supposed to work. Next time somebody goes off about how their Constitutional Rights are being trampled ask them what part of the Constitution they are referring to. Most likely you'll get a blank look. I had some one on this board tell me that "the Constitution is thousands of pages long."

  I keep a copy of it on my desk, and I have a very good Constitution website bookmarked. I need it frequently, as I'm writing a novel based on Constitutional issues.

  The biggest threat to our rights (IMHO) is the fact that people are willingly turning over all kinds of personal issues to the governement. Everytime we give a bit more power to the government - whether its police power, privacy, health care, price controls, whatever, we loose something of our rights.
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  smellsgood

  I somewhat agree. Like the phones thing, I don't mind them tapping into numbers from suspect communications with terrorists
  
  The airport security is a whole different thing.
  
  Let me just put it this way. If the only people who committed these acts against us we could narrow down to blue eyed/blonde haired/females in their late twenties...then, knowing this, why would you hassle brunettes/males/older folks??? To waste effort? Time? Money? Prove your inefficient and backwards? To be politically correct? OH! ding ding ding ding!
  
  It's like having a room full of chests with either standard key or combination locks. You've been given a KEY, but yet you inanely going around messing around with all the combination locks.
  
  It's not smart, period.
  
  uh-oh, someone might get offended by this...should i post it?
• 

  Arthur

  Basically, the intellignece agencies are damned if they do; damned if they don't. The American public was outraged at the inabilities of the FBI, and the CIA to connect the dots regarding the Al Qaeda operatives that were taking flight classes before 9/11. But, then, when the Patriot Act was passed; which fixed those intelligence flaws, many of those same people started bitching about the fixes being made.

  I have heard many people accuse those of us who support the Patriot Act and the NSA wiretap programs as being "paranoid". This is quite odd, being that many of these same people are always pontificating how the NSA and the Bush Administration wants to "spy on all of us", "take away all of our rights", and "turn the country into a police state". Many of them started throwing the "George Orwell" and "1984" cliches around because the NSA had the "audacity" to monitor financial transactions of Al Qaeda members (a program that was recommended by the 9/11 Commission). When I hear all of this "big brother" and "1984" sloganeering coming out of the mouths of the people who hate the Patriot Act and NSA programs, I just sit back and ask: "who's really the paranoid one?"
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  JeffT

  I told a some one (OK a Lyndon LaRouche acolyte on the street) that the fact that he could stand out there holding a sign that said "Bush and Cheney are Nazi's" was proof that they weren't. I don't think he got it.
• 

  Arthur

  I told a some one (OK a Lyndon LaRouche acolyte on the street) that the fact that he could stand out there holding a sign that said "Bush and Cheney are Nazi's" was proof that they weren't. I don't think he got it.

  This is an excellent point. I certainly don't agree with George W. on several issues, but I certainly don't think of him as a fascist either. If all of the claims about the Patriot Act, and the "fascist clamp-down" on civil liberties was true; how was it possible for a movie like Fahrenheit 9/11 to be shown across the entire country without any retaliation taken toward Michael Moore? How is it possible for Charlie Sheen to be able to publicly discuss his conspiracy views of 9/11 without being taken in for questioning, or put on the FAA "No Fly List"? How is it possible for scores of blogs and websites that are extremely critical of the Bush Administration and the NSA to continue to operate? 1984 my ass.
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  Leolaia

  On my way back from Sydney, I was subjected to three searches at the airport (one for general security/customs, one for flights headed to the US, and one at the gate) plus a patting-down (which everyone had to go through). In the last search, the guy went through my carry-on and found a tube of sunblock which I forgot I had in there. When I unpacked back home, I found the OTHER one which he missed (in fact, he surrendered the near-empty one). And then when I unpacked my backpack, at the very very bottom of everything I discovered an amenity kit I got on the way over to Oz ... which I totally was unaware I still had, and -- horror of horrors -- it had toothpaste and moisturizer and all sorts of things now considered dangerous. I have to wonder if they only found the single tube of sunblock in three searches, would it take 9 searches to find both sunblocks plus the amenity bag?

  Not that I am suggesting such a ridiculous number of searches, I'm just saying that the process is ineffectual, pretty untargeted (any liquids being banned), and ultimately unsustainable. If they are serious about preventing explosives being carried aboard in hand luggage (not forgetting about checked luggage), I hope they search smarter and either upgrade to better bomb-sniffing technology or get sniff dogs in airports...that would be far more effective and less wasteful (and tedious for the frequent traveler) than the ditch-anything-liquid procedure now in place.
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  vitty

  Let me just put it this way. If the only people who committed these acts against us we could narrow down to blue eyed/blonde haired/females in their late twenties...then, knowing this, why would you hassle brunettes/males/older folks??? To waste effort? Time? Money? Prove your inefficient and backwards? To be politically correct? OH! ding ding ding ding!

  Because, when the recent arrests were made in Britain, they had one who was an english, blonde haired convert ! I know this is unual but you must have good basic security.

  Even so I believe the security should be dealt with ppl who know how to profile ppl and know what to look for, instead of leaving it to airport staff to scrutinize EVERYONE.

  When we came through security yesterday our bag was checked by a muslim woman, how would you feel about that.?
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  smellsgood

  Of course there are going to be individuals outside the "profile" but "profiling" is truly the most smart and efficient way to go about things. Let's rule out octogenarians with high socks pulled up to their knees, sensible walking shoes travelling from Oklahoma to Florida. Meaning, that of course don't shut out the possibility of exceptions to the "rule," just start by ruling out obviously benign citizens.
  
  It sucks that even with a profile in place, yes, there will be innocent people who will be screened based on their similarities to it. But, like I said, if there were MAINLY blonde/blue/lets say early twenties this time, causing trouble, and blonde/blue who attacked flew the planes, I couldn't see myself having a problem if I was targeted because I would more closely fit the profile than Billy one tooth from Texas.
  
  It's like shooting all the other circles just so the bullseye doesn't feel like it's being singled out.
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  itsallgoodnow

  I know it probably seems like Americans are just a bunch of crybabies, but I figure lots of people just don't adjust well to recent changes, want things to go back to the way they were, assume this is the worst of it (hahahaha) and these people are just louder about it than the rest of us.

  I think maybe we should try socialized healthcare, I don't mind extra security at the airport, although I hope they don't ask me to check my laptop, and I really don't think they are listening to my phone calls, and if they are, I really don't care.