by LuciousJ 25 Replies latest jw friends
....is it wrong to have anything patriotic? Is it wrong to say the 'pledge of allegiance'? Is hanging the Amer. Flag outside wrong? I need some good factual-based answers on this one
The answer probably depends on where you live (like, what country?). If you live in the US then: no. If you are looking for a biblical answer, then you need to change the premise of your question to some good "bible-based" answers.
Thanks everyone for your advice, opinions, etc. I'm going to research it more thoroughly and go with my gut feelings on what I feel is truly correct. My hubby went to Home Depot for tools the other day and came home with the flag and when I walked outside it was hung. He said it was because of Monday being Patriot's Day (9/11) and he was showing respect. I think it was because he's become so bitter and angry at the organization and what he's lost out on over 25+ years.....that he is just going full force. I on the other hand, had a very strange, uncomfortable feeling come over me but that's what we're trained to feel right?! I didn't really know how to react. In my years out of the 'false' I always celebrated July 4th to the hilt and had no problems with the flag. But, after coming back and then being baptized, even though we are now DA'd........it still just feels a little weird. As far as the pledge of allegience, I haven't told my kids what to do or not to do because they will want to know "why" and I don't really know that answer (factually) yet. Again, I appreciate more comments, info. :)
Thanks again everyone!
LJ
I don't fly the flag or pledge the flag because I refuse to demonstrate my patriotism on someone else's demand. However, I'm a law-abiding, voting citizen, and I believe that democracy (in the U.S. and other countries) is the least harmful form of government out of all the alternatives.
The only thing wrong with patriotism, as in religion, is when it becomes extreme. When citizens start believing that their government can do no wrong and that it should be supported without question is when their thinking becomes like JWs, convinced that right is on their side and atrocities committed by the government or military should be ignored or excused.
As a kid in school, I was always taught that democracy depends on educated, well-informed citizens capable of making rational decisions about their government. Responsible citizens don't say, "My country, right or wrong." It means weighing and measuring everything heard from the government and in the media before coming to conclusions and always with the awareness that the whole story is not being presented.
Glad to offer some input. One thing you may consider is that while the WTS paints governments as completely in the realm of Satan, this cannot be resolved with Romans 13. They try to pawn this off as nothing more than a reason to obey laws and be respectful, but the passage goes much further than that.
LuciousJ
We are raising our grandkids - we have basically taken the position that we are not going to 'dictate' feelings, reason, or action on the matter of the patriotic ceremonies and flag salute. Although at times I get a little uneasy about not knowing how to address these issues - I bite my tongue and listen with patience when they tell me that they do the pledge at school or she does it sometimes at home too. I have to let them be what they are - and I don't want to shackle them with my 'false reasonings' that have issued from the cult.
For me, it is a pragmatic decision to allow this to go without clear direction. I know that 43 years of my thinking was influenced by a cultish religion - so I have no doubt that some of the deeper entrenched thinking would influence my opinions on the subject. I get that same uncomfortable feeling about the flag at times - but now it seems to be alternating with a growing respect and even desire to hang a flag on my home.
Like holidays, blood issues, even human sexuality, the WTS distorted our thinking and gave us 'tunnel vision' about certain matters. I suspect that for most that does not disipate in a short time. I know it has not with me.
I suspect your hubby's hanging of the flag was precisely what you said - an act of defiance against the losses he has taken. I have done similar things at times - just to prove to myself that I am not under thier spell any longer.
Balance is always the elusive position in this life isn't it?
Jeff
Jeff, I agree whole-heartedly with you. Thank you for your input & opinions. One thing I keep telling myself is that no matter what, God will read my heart and knows what I feel better than even I do. I think that is what the majority of all cases comes down to.....IMHO that is.
LuciousJ
Salute the flag, don't salute the flag, say the pledge, don't say the pledge, it makes no difference to me...that's what freedom from the WT is all about FREEDOM!
If you are a Christain, do what you believe Jesus would do. Can you see Jesus saying the pledge of allegiance? If so, follow him.
If you are a Christain, do what you believe Jesus would do. Can you see Jesus saying the pledge of allegiance? If so, follow him.
Yes, thou must also shun material possessions and thy home to live out the rest of thy days fasting and wandering. Thus saith the Lawd.
Seriously, Jesus is said to be the King of Kings, and above all of mankind's little groupings. so this wouldn't make sense anyway...It would be like a crazed fan claiming "Jesus is a Notre Dame fan". Ridiculous, but doesn't mean ya can't be a Notre Dame fan (unless you're a dub maybe!).
M.J., I was not speaking to Agnostics like you, I was speaking to Christains! :) Jesus did set an example, one that I guess you are not willing to follow. Do not deceive yourself into thinking that the road is broad and spacious! Spend your time on earth monitoring the scores of sports teams like Notre Dame, and you will be judged accordingly.
