Are "Apostates" jumping the gun with their info on the WT to make a case?

by booker-t 53 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    Wow, it's threads like this that help me out. You guys are really having a great discussion here. I am not going to contribute on whether apostates overstate or get things wrong, because I want you all to think about using another title. Why should we (proudly or otherwise) be labeled as apostates because we are former JWs? I posted this definition in another thread: I use another definition of "apostate" to answer questions like "Have you been reading apostate literature?" My definition is this- An apostate abandons something he once believed in. Someone who confirms his beliefs now, which were not in harmony with his previous beliefs, has never truly abandoned anything. He has allowed the light to get brighter and has gotten closer and closer to the truth of the matter. He has grown from his previous understanding, which was not inspired, and it allowed him to get to where he is today. In short, I say to that question above, "NO." using my definition. This is very similar to the GB method of updating current truth. I am a truth-seeker just like any other person on earth, I refuse to accept a label from the WTBTS. Anyway, that point withstanding, this is a great debate/thread.

  • under_believer
    under_believer

    sbf, that has to be Guy Pierce. He used to be my C.O. What are the allegations? I didn't see that in Barbara's account...

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    FYI

    Here is the quote:

    Within the inner sanctums of congregations and circuits, dirty little secrets continued, and, for some unknown reason, protection of abusers was business as usual. One particularly nasty secret concerned personal instructions sent out in 1992 from one of the Governing Body members, who Harry was certain was Ted Jaracz, to a few very well-known circuit and district overseers to meet with and compel abuse victims to remain silent about their abuse or be disfellowshipped. In Harry Peloyan?s office in 1994, I, along with my husband, Joe, thumbed through a file folder full of complaining letters, which came to headquarters from across the country about the situation. Interestingly, the name of one intimidating circuit representative mentioned frequently in those letters is now a member of the Governing Body.

    http://www.freeminds.org/women/barbara_anderson.htm

    In the discussion on this forum she added:

    You asked who the intimidating circuit representative was who later became a Governing Body member? At this point I have chosen not to reveal the name but he's one of the newer GB members since 2000. At this point it might be better not to name the man for reasons I won't go into here. He knows what he did, and I hope that if and when my story comes to the attention of all the GB, he shudders because he must know that one day his name will be made public. Perhaps one of the victims will decide to come forward and name names. I think this would be one of the best ways this sad saga in WT history be revealed.

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/113492/4.ashx

    Slim

  • LongHairGal
    LongHairGal

    As far as "Apostates" jumping the gun with info on the WT... I think in some cases this is unfortunately true. All this does is give fuel to the JW belief that "Apostates" [rolls eyeballs] are telling lies about the JWs and persecuting them. This burns me up because they are not being persecuted. They are simply being exposed.

    I know it sounds unfair and is a double standard, but I feel that ex-JWs or "Apostates" who want to expose the JWs had better get all their facts straight or they will not be taken seriously.

    LHG

  • Jringe01
    Jringe01

    This relates to the thread where this line was written: Unlike the WT that likes to tell "unproven" stories and repeat unlikely, laughable stories at conventions and assemblies

    This is done everywhere, especially in advertising "Florence K says she lost 35lbs in 3 weeks...". In telling such tales with no hard evidence JW's mearly mirror the world in which they live.

    jringe: Nope. Uh-uh. Not having it.

    You see, the WTS painted themselves into a corner a long time ago with that line of reasoning. They claim to be God's chosen people, bearing his name. Set apart from the world. Not partaking in the ways of the world. Better, if you will. Adhering to strict tenents of honesty. Guiding by God's Holy Spirit. Does the word "truth" ring a bell? Do you honestly think that the WTS would agree that they reflect the same standards of truthfulness as..........wait for it ...................... drumroll............... ...................................ADVERTISING!!!!!!??????

    Nope. Try again.

    This is my point: They are not as set apart as they claim. They mirror the world in which they live when they tell "unproven" stories and repeat unlikely, laughable stories at conventions and assemblies " as one poster put it.

    Speaking of truth how do I know that "Florence K says she lost 35lbs in 3 weeks..." and how do I know that "Brother B had the following experience.." They are all unsubstaniated stories. They make for good reading/listening and good storytelling yes but without more evidence the teller/author could easily be exaggerating, unintentionally conveying a misunderstanding or outright lying.

    A friend is trying to push me to adopt the Atkins Approach. I was reading the latest edition of Dr. Atkins book and he does the exact same thing. Mind you he is a doctor and can't reveal too much without violating doctor/patient confidentiality. However having said that, how do I know that all the testimonials he cites in his book are 100% accurate???

    I don't! I cannot use those tales in any decision making because they are biased. They are only in support of the subject matter.

    And as for "Do you honestly think that the WTS would agree that they reflect the same standards of truthfulness as...ADVERTISING!!!!!!??????" I don't really care what the WTS thinks. The fact is when anyone WTS or otherwise tells these stories how do you really know you are getting the whole complete and unabridged story??? And given some of the previous threads discussing the WTS failed prophesy's one could conclude that the WTS may be guilty of some of the same streaches of truth as advertisers, political propaganda etc. However i will only admit to the possibility of this for obvious reasons.

    People live by belief. If you can get ahold of that belief you can get people to do anything (The Holocaust). By and large people are so stupid and gullible because they believe such stories (almost) without question. In fact I do believe there have been threads posted before discussing some of those stories that go around and that's why urban legends remain popular. In this JW's are no better or worse so to speak than anyone else on this planet.

    (That's also why any credible Research firm that calls you for a survey at suppertime (I've may have called some of you in my time ) will not reveal who comissioned the study. If people knew then their answers would not be as honest because what they believe about the company would colour their replies. I have seen this before however given my arguement above you should not trust that assertion 100%. LOL )

  • avengers
    avengers
    I know it sounds unfair and is a double standard, but I feel that ex-JWs or "Apostates" who want to expose the JWs hadbetter get all their facts straight or they will not be taken seriously.

    LHG

    I guess the same goes for you about getting "all their facts straight".

    Question. How do you expose the JW's?

    My two oldest daughters are JW. How do I expose them? Most of the JWs are victims themselves. It's not the JWs that have to be exposed. No, it's the Organization, the top where the "leaders" reside; the ones who write the WT, the Awake, the KM and all the rest of the garbage they produce.
    It's these "men" who oppress the JWs who have to be exposed. Ofcourse "we" have to get "our" facts straight but not to expose the JWs, but to expose the ones who keep the R&F in darkness and wo deliberately mislead them with their lies. These "men" whoever they are have to be exposed!

    They are the evil who keep our sons and daughters from us, they are the ones seperating families. This evil has to be exposed. The innocent ones have to be freed from this evil slave

    This evil slave will lie and cheat theocratic warfare just to obtain their goal. They don't care about us, or the brothers and sisters..

    Therefore I say to them: "Let my people go". Here I mean our daughters, our sons and their husbands and wives, our grandkids and all those who suffer under the mighty hand of the evil slave hiding behind their Watchtower; using and abusing the democratic system which they in their magazines so despise.

    Watchtower. Die. And all you who are part of this deception.

    Andy

  • LongHairGal
    LongHairGal

    To Avengers:

    Calm Down Boy! I'm on your side! (I'm not a new poster by the way - I just haven't been around for a while).

    I just want everybody here to be taken seriously. Unfortunately, the onus is on the person or persons doing the exposing - whether it is about religion or anything else.


    LHG

  • ithinkisee
    ithinkisee

    I've never taken much stock in the satanic images, masonic connections, etc.

    My personal convictions are more simple. Basically my belief is that if they have lied about their history and misquoted secular authorities, I have no reason to put faith in them. In their own publications it says, "A religion that teaches lies cannot be true."

    Regarding embellishments by apostates, I would say it definitely happens.

    However, there are some things where both sides may be right. For instance, they do not disfellowship. They instead say "so-and-so is no longer one of JWs". This has been documented at elder's schools and in elder letters to the congregations.

    However, the rest of the congregation - and even most elders - might say (out of habit) that the person was "disfellowshipped" when speaking informally after the announcement. In this case both sides are really correct, even though the terminology is technically different.

    My $.o2 cents

    ithinkisee

  • minimus
    minimus

    I HATE misinformation. That's why I don't always accept rumor as being truth. When exjws say things that are inacurrate, it leaves JWs to say, "SEE! The "apostates" are always lying".....That being said, I believe the biggest liar of them all is the Society. They lie and even say its ok.

  • avengers
    avengers

    Hey Long haired Gal

    Sorry if I sounded harsh. I did not mean anything personal.
    My apologies.

    I just think that a lot of JW's are indeed nice people. Most of them are just misled, therefore they shun us treat us as garbage apostates.
    It's the leaders, the writers, etc who make them this way. (not always though)
    IMO the JW's and the WTare not the same although many consider them so, and in some cases they are.

    Hope you forgive me.

    Andy

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit